LACK OF POTTY TRAINING BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL.

[DARNLY]

I think he is just trying to make a general point that many children (not specific children with various health issues such as prematurity, of course they should have extra support and help). are turning up to school at the ages of 4/5 not potty trained at all. Parents surely must take some responsibility for this. 1 teacher, 30 plus children with what appears to be levels of up to half the classes not potty trained. This is an impossible situation for the teacher, disruptive for education and difficult to time manage and not good for the child. Along with issues of an increasing lack of discipline in some very young children, teachers are leaving in their droves, we are in crisis. They are teachers not parents and do a fine job caring for our little ones in exceptional difficult circumstances these days. I was a working midwife and mother of 3 children. It was expected among parents of reception classes to try to ensure children were potty trained Potty training surely is a parents responsibility not a teachers. I don't remember any child in any class not being potty trained or virtually there. A busy state school with 30 plus in the class.

Yes consolidation comes with training. Before training they don't hold really at all

Have to say out of my entire friendship group the only 2 mothers who had the attitude “oh we’ll get school to sort it out” ….were actually primary teachers themselves 😂

If it were true everyone over the age of about 40 would be affected.

Afraid as a childminder I’ve noticed increasing reluctance with some parents. When I had my own children I did have to take a week off from my then job to train my child. I have experienced recently parents who think the it’s childcare provider’s job. I tell them I’m happy to support but first part has to be done at home - we are looking after multiple children and cannot do the first stage. I’ve had to rewrite my potty training policy for parents to sign to reflect this.

Same here. The nursery were very helpful and we worked together.

Sadly not true.

All right - no one worth caring about

I think potty training is such an individual thing. I went down the training route with DS, he was just over 2, showing some signs and he got it within a few days. All good. DD similarly articulate but just a very different kettle of fish. She ended up being just over 3.5 when she finally got it. We did all the recommended things, went naked for days, bribery, stories about poos going down the loo etc but without a nappy, she would just hold her wee in, refuse to sit on the potty or loo and go for hours and hours without weeing (despite drinking lots) then do it all down her legs while screaming. Then she just decided for herself and got it, fully clothed, in pants, just did it. All the trying was pointless and potentially harmful in her case. That's not to say parents should not bother trying but it doesn't always work out as easily.

Yep.

I've had one or two people on previous threads like this want to know every last detail of my son's medical history to attempt to prove me wrong and say that SEND is just an excuse.

Agreed! I think the younger, the better. Mine wanted attention and praise when they were little, what better way of giving them it than potty training. We had a potty in every bathroom from their first birthday. They could sit on it, play with it - it was just there. Just before they were two, we did a week of staying in, bare bums, stamp charts, cheering every wee or poo that went in the right place. It worked- both out of nappies by 2.

At 4 they were so engrossed in whatever they were playing with, didn’t want to stop their game and were much more likely to get caught short! It is definitely harder to train a child in this phase.

My mum taught reception age for donkeys years. If children with no additional needs weren’t trained she would phone the parents to come and clean up after every accident and encourage them to take a week off to nail toilet training. It worked every time they were forced. Also, there was a time when teachers weren’t allowed to do intimate care for the kids.

I agree OP. The level of need in many of our Reception children now is higher than ever. Many still in nappies, can't hold a basic conversation, sit at a table to eat, drink from a cup, take off their own coat. Impossible to actually teach whilst all this is going on.

In my experience, teachers don't do any intimate care for children.

My son's teachers have never changed him at school and their names aren't even on his intimate care plan. TA's change him.

I had to potty train my sisters kid it's so hard

I’m a primary school governor in a very deprived part of the country and it’s causing us massive headaches. It’s definitely on the rise. And I’d say that in my school it’s not the children with SEN or the families with two working parents that are the problem. It’s laziness but also ignorance. In my view the closure of sure start is at the root of a lot of this.

I'm a teacher, I have children start school each year who are not toilet trained. I also have parents try to hand over baby bottles instead of proper water drink bottles and try to tell me that their child needs formula made up at set times.
I have children who still nap because they have very late (10pm + or no set) bedtime. I have children with screen addictions. Unable to manage their own clothes such as jackets, jumpers, shoes and socks etc. No social skills, hit, bite and scratch others. Cannot sit through story time. Fine and gross motor issues. Speech delays. They scream to have needs met rather than using words.
No teeth or rotted teeth from nursing carries.
Teaching is a nightmare.
None of these children have SEN issues.

Unless there are additional needs, then no child should start school wearing nappies, the school should be able to refuse their admission, or inform the parents it will be up to them to come into school to change their child's nappy.

Not all additional needs are obvious as young as 4. I imagine that's a big reason why it doesn't happen because it would likely prevent some children from attending school who do have additional needs.

My kid is 3 and has autism is that ok if she isn't potty trained

Also, there was a time when teachers weren’t allowed to do intimate care for the kids.
I don't think this is true. I remember cleaning up after a particularly unpleasant accident (illness not lack of toilet training) in the early 80s.

Ideally a TA would be there to deal with accidents so the teacher can get on with the rest of the class. In a School Nursery class or a Nursery School the roles tend to be more flexible and I have definitely changed children myself. If a child with SEN has a 1-1 TA then that person would do the intimate care. I have been retired for 10 years so it is possible things have changed in that time.

Your child and your parenting are most definitely not what people are talking about here.

ND children have their own road to navigate and will do it at their own pace. No teacher is ever going to judge you on this and don’t allow anyone else to either.

I'm a bit baffled - do these children not go through the 'I WANNA DO IT!!!!' stage? This was the stage that drove me most round the twist with my lot (I had five, single mum, but at home until smallest went to nursery). They all went through a phase where they wouldn't wear a nappy, HAD to put on their own clothes, cut up their own dinner etc etc and any attempts to help were met with extreme screaming and flailing and demands to be allowed to do it themselves.

It was generally the stage when they potty trained (mine were all clean and dry reliably by 2.5 yrs) and learned to dress themselves and eat with cutlery, because 'I WANNA DO IT!!!!' meant they wanted to copy what their older siblings or I were doing. Are children just not having that stage any more?

I know someone with a 3.5yr old daughter. She’s still in nappies, won’t drink out of a cup and always has a dummy in her mouth and about another five in her hands. Apparently she doesn’t want to give dummies or bottles up, and isn’t ready to potty train and the parents “don’t like to push things in their house.” They have an older child who was almost 5 when he was potty trained and gave up his dummies and bottles. I don’t understand it, I really don’t.

House prices are high, mortgages are unattainable, and two minimum wages won't feed and house a family of 4.
Of course the children are suffering! Both parents are working more than ever before.
If having a stay at home parent was more affordable, or the government helped to make up the financial difference when one parent stays home, we could cut down on 'free' nursery places and funded holiday clubs. You'd see a big improvement in issues like late potty training and antisocial behaviour in children / young teens because they'd have a parent at home actually parenting.
Of course many families have working parents and well behaved kids but too many parents are killing themselves in low paid jobs and just do not have the time or energy to parent their kids as needed