LACK OF POTTY TRAINING BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL.

[DARNLY]

I think he is just trying to make a general point that many children (not specific children with various health issues such as prematurity, of course they should have extra support and help). are turning up to school at the ages of 4/5 not potty trained at all. Parents surely must take some responsibility for this. 1 teacher, 30 plus children with what appears to be levels of up to half the classes not potty trained. This is an impossible situation for the teacher, disruptive for education and difficult to time manage and not good for the child. Along with issues of an increasing lack of discipline in some very young children, teachers are leaving in their droves, we are in crisis. They are teachers not parents and do a fine job caring for our little ones in exceptional difficult circumstances these days. I was a working midwife and mother of 3 children. It was expected among parents of reception classes to try to ensure children were potty trained Potty training surely is a parents responsibility not a teachers. I don't remember any child in any class not being potty trained or virtually there. A busy state school with 30 plus in the class.

Wow, you've worked with, what, a few schools?

I've worked with hundreds closely, and thousands at a broader level.

Why do you think your tiny remit of personal experience is accurate and representative?

Just my opinion that it’s exaggerated bullshit, when dc started school a couple years ago only one child was in nappies and she was severely autistic couldn’t talk etc

a 2 year old needs to be potty trained a 4 year old even if parents had put no effort into training him/her would not want to be pooing themselves in front of their classmates, I’m self admittedly lazy that’s why I trained mine asap

I know parents worse than just “lazy” heroin addicts, alcoholics etc and all their kids start school out of nappies. Kids have terminal lice but weren’t in nappies at 4 honestly I think all these kids in nappies at 4 must be special ed but it hasn’t been picked up yet because they have only just started school and the parents didn’t recognise the signs or thought they’d grow out of it

To those blaming working mums or "parents" and calling them lazy, you must at least understand how idiotic you sound - its those few who stay at home that are lazy or lazier , not the women who work 😂
calling working women juggling childcare lazy!!
Bbc has definitely rotted your brains.

If you haven't been able to employ the power of critical thinking or analytical skills, at least use the power of observation. Those that aren't able to toilet themselves probably had a mum at home for 5 years.

Yep bribery worked for me as well. A sweet for a wee and because it took him a longer for poos, a whole week of poos got my ds a dinosaur onsie. Hey it worked and we were able to stop the bribery quickly so that he kept all of his teeth as well! 😆

@Pubesinsoup I don't really understand your reply to my post. Nowhere was I blaming women or privileged people or anything like that. I was merely saying what my elderly mother's opinion was on the situation.

It was the case when my son started nursery (2-3 year olds) that unless there was a disability they had to be potty trained. This is going back almost 25 years but it wasn’t an issue and 99% of toddlers managed it.
There has definitely been a change in parenting in the last 20/30 years, I see reception age children a lot in my area, wearing nappies, having dummies and bottles, some are even being pushed home from school in a pushchair, normally staring at a phone. They can’t all be special needs. Just to add I was a single mum who had to work. I still managed it.

This is offensive and ableist, not to mention unnecessarily expensive. My son has Autism and Cerebral Palsy and was toilet trained late but he's entirely suitable for a mainstream education. There are a number of disabilities that may affect toilet training but not intellectual capability. Many of which won't be diagnosed by age 3 which is when families are applying for school places.

I think this is just an excuse. Both my DH and I worked full time in professional jobs, we still had time - along with our childcare provider - to potty train long before they started school.

What are you on about

To be fair to the pushchair example though, how many children do you see jump straight into cars? Not much difference really, especially if it's walking distance.

Bribery worked for well for us, too 🤣 on the good advice of both my mother and grandmother! They got a chocolate button for every wee, and 3 haribo sweets for every poo. Worked incredibly well!!

As for car and pushchair argument, well again it's a change in society isn't it.
so many come from where if you drive you have a status, and rules arent respected and if you are polite and apologetic you are weak so they continue practicing it here and drive in an intimidating manner and their regard for pedestrians is nothing at all, plus with so many unlicensed drivers, it's simply too dangerous to have kids walking.
So pushchairs are due to this and no problem for anyone. Cars and their drivers and the lack of respect for rules are a problem.
We've gone from being a high trust, law and rule respecting, thinking of others culture before to what really now.

I don't agree that working parents can't do it. I was a completely single working parent and between his kindergarten and I he was clean and dry before he started state nursery at 3. He had to be to attend along with being relatively independent.

Proper school is for teaching.

I didn't know primary schools employed potty training consultants, what an interesting career you must have!

Perhaps a 'tiny remit' in the grand scheme of things but I am one of those people actually out here helping children and parents with potty training daily 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's just not what I've seen in my experience so I stand by that I think it is exaggerated lies. The latest push to force all children into school based preschools from the age of 2.

I'm not exactly sure when, but there was the disability discrimination act 1995 where settings were advised not to refuse children for simply being in nappies. Then theres the Equality Act 2010, which protects people from discrimination. It can be interpreted that children over compulsory school age who haven't acheived continence may be perceived as having, or confirmed as having a disability. Then there's the Children and Families act 2014 which imposes a duty on schools to support pupils with medical conditions including bladder and bowel issues, as well as implement personal care policy originally endorsed in 2005, to prevent exclusion or unfavourable treatment of pupils who are still in nappies.

It stopped because it was discriminatory policy. Children with undiagnosed or unrecognised disabilities were suffering and families were being blamed and not supported. Excluding children who were also being neglected pushed them further off of the radar and out of the public eye.

a 2 year old needs to be potty trained a 4 year old even if parents had put no effort into training him/her would not want to be pooing themselves in front of their classmates, I’m self admittedly lazy that’s why I trained mine asap

That’s not true. I’ve seen numerous NT 4yr olds poo themselves in school - yes, in the classroom alongside their peers. It’s not just that the parents haven’t bothered to persist with training, it’s that the parents haven’t trained at all and the children have no idea they’re supposed to go in a toilet and no idea about how to plan and achieve that if they do understand they’re supposed to.

Sometimes the children are wearing pull ups and poo in those. They usually don’t think to tell anyone, so by the time we change them the enormous poo has spread everywhere. Other children are put into proper pants on their first day of school despite receiving no potty training whatsoever and poo in those.

These parents are hugely failing their children. One told me that it was the school’s job to train them, another thought their child would magically pick it up once they started school and had no idea they were supposed to have taught them, etc etc. Again, these are NT children.

It seems to be getting worse not better.

Thee was a bit on itv news recently where a head teacher (I think) said they were changing a child 16 times a day as they hadn't been potty trained. But surely no child wees 16 times in a school day and this indicates a genuine issue rather than lack of potty training?

I'd say so.

My son needs changing multiple times during a school day and it's exactly because he has a genuine issue.

Children with no additional needs or medical conditions should be “school ready” by the time they start reception. I am talking bare basics.

By school ready, I mean generally clean and dry- odd accidents may be expected but not daily wetting and soiling themselves.

They should be able to have a go at getting themselves dressed- if they get their shoes on the wrong feet then fine! They are still young.

They should be able to sit and eat lunch without getting up and down and have an idea how to use cutlery. They may need a help cutting but this is age appropriate help.

These are basic tasks that should be taught by parents. I don’t know when it became acceptable to dump these tasks on teachers

I just find it hard to believe tbh if the local alcoholic with terminal lice (yes the parent as well as the child) potty trains their child before school then WHO isn’t? I’m sure there’s some but I dispute it’s as common as it’s made out every September in the click bait news articles

My son is three, non- speaking and neuro divergent. It took from when he started weaning until about two months ago to get him to use a spoon independently after over two years of placing the spoon in his hand or guiding his spoon to show him how to scoop at every single meal. If he goes to school still in nappies it will in no part be due to lazy parenting, parents of neurodivergent children have patience beyond patience. He will get there, but it's a very very slow process.

Not potty training specifically, but in early years development across healthcare, school and social care.

There are areas where the issues are very pronounced, and areas where they're almost unheard of, naturally, but the trends are very clear.

You're as bad as my sister when she was an NQT - it's not like my school, so your experience of working with hundreds of schools, plus all of the associated support services and leading child development experts.

Would it kill you to think, "hmm, maybe there's something more to it than my direct experience?"

Crikey! It makes sense why we're here, if folks are relying on ans sharing shoddy information.

Literally no one would put you in the lazy parenting category

Part of potty training is learning to hold it til the appropriate time though?

The first day of potty training we did, my son must have weed on the floor forty fucking times, plus a few in the potty.

They consolidated into 6-7 in a few days (actually harder to get the timing right when they start to control it because instead of dribbling a bit out, they have to go NOW for a big wee).