LACK OF POTTY TRAINING BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL.

[DARNLY]

I think he is just trying to make a general point that many children (not specific children with various health issues such as prematurity, of course they should have extra support and help). are turning up to school at the ages of 4/5 not potty trained at all. Parents surely must take some responsibility for this. 1 teacher, 30 plus children with what appears to be levels of up to half the classes not potty trained. This is an impossible situation for the teacher, disruptive for education and difficult to time manage and not good for the child. Along with issues of an increasing lack of discipline in some very young children, teachers are leaving in their droves, we are in crisis. They are teachers not parents and do a fine job caring for our little ones in exceptional difficult circumstances these days. I was a working midwife and mother of 3 children. It was expected among parents of reception classes to try to ensure children were potty trained Potty training surely is a parents responsibility not a teachers. I don't remember any child in any class not being potty trained or virtually there. A busy state school with 30 plus in the class.

It is important, it is time consuming, disposal nappies are horrendous for the environment, they delay toilet training too.
Children were trained much early when nappies were washed, definitely when they were hand washed.
Children are more than capable before 3.
Extra needs aside.

Special needs excepting you shouldn't send a child to reception if they aren't toilet trained! Accidents in school are one thing, but not being potty trained by 4 is ridiculous.

Where is the parent's support? We used to have children's centres the Conservative government got rid of them now we have issues with potty training has no-one connected the dots?

I had my children during a Conservative government, before SureStart centres and the like. I was a military wife living hundreds of miles away from my family and really quite isolated, but guess what? DS1 was toilet trained before he was 2 and DS2 was a couple of months after his second birthday.

Back then children couldn’t go to preschool if they were in nappies so we all made sure they weren’t, and they could start when they were 2 and a half. It was really rare for a NT child to still be in nappies at 3.

DGS is 21mths old. He’s started to do wees on the potty when he gets up in the morning and before bed. Sometimes during the day he will say he needs a wee too. He’s not reliable, yet, but I can’t see him being in nappies at 3 tbh, and both his parents work. Too many parents make excuses. If you have children, potty training is part of the deal so if you work you need to take annual leave to sort it out if necessary.

Gosh really? 🙄Still a fully qualified teacher doing a thing she shouldn't have to, and an example of the same vibe.

Children in FT nursery should be supported through training, the staff have to change the children's nappies so I don't see why they won't train the children to use the toilet, they get paid enough, yes there will be spills, I'm sure there is many spills in nursery anyways.

And the nappy lobby pushing the narrative that it’s better to wait until the kid basically walks up to you and demands to use a toilet. Nappy companies sponsored healthcare leaflets and funded studies about the idea of ‘readiness’ to dissuade parents from potty training earlier. 18mo-2yrs was the norm until the mid 20th century.

How have parents dropped the ball so spectacularly on this?

Everyone knows potty training is a thing children learn.

Many children are in childcare, and I know nurseries (hopefully more than not) are encouraging of potty training, as they often prepare children for primary school AND it makes their jobs easier.

Most people have friends or family members with older children, so likely discuss child development and share information on the 'hows, whats and whens'.

And finally, schools sent you the paper a few months before starting with the list of things children should be able to do independently before starting.

Doesn't this happen anymore or do folks just choose not to engage with any of the help or advice?

The age for potty training has become noticeably older over the past 5yrs (I’ve run toddler groups for 10). When I started it was on average around 2yrs but now it’s 3-4yrs. I personally believe it’s because the amount of families with not only both parents working full time has increased but also the amount being put in nursery as opposed to with grandparents has increased.

It always baffles me when people use having two working parents as an excuse, I worked in private day nurseries 15-20 years ago and the kids almost always had two working parents, I can only ever remember one or two of them getting to 3 without being potty trained, it was very rare.

The advice changed. It went from ‘this is the age to start’ to ‘at this age your child may show signs of being ready’

Ds is in a class of 30 and the only two not toilet trained fully at the start of reception were two boys who visibly have fairly significant additional needs. The catchment for the school is urban and very mixed about 38% pp. Are others actually seeing lots of children who aren't toilet trained by rising 5? As that hasn't been our experience

We both work FT ds was in nursery at 1 and out of nappies just after his second birthday. Working isn't an excuse

There is a difference between a private nursery that takes children from babies and a school nursery that makes them from 3.

Nursery can definitely help by supporting parents but it is absolutely not nursery/preschool’s responsibility to be potty training people’s kids. Accidents are to be expected still at that age but working full time is no excuse for not teaching important skills to your children. Two days off a week = two days of potty training. It may take a bit longer doing it with gaps in between but if started around two a child with no extra needs will probably be ready by school. (All bodies are different and parents may well discover that there child has a condition effecting continence but it’s possible to get most children dry during the day from quite young)

Agree - children should be largely potty trained by the age of 3, and certainly able to use the bathroom unassisted by the age of 4.5. It’s is one thing if you have a single anxious or SEN child who isn’t quite there in reception who can be managed with the help of a TA make it over the line - but half the class?

I feel we are at the stage where, like many preschool/nurseries do, children who are not able to toilet themselves should not be allowed to start school and - unless there is medical evidence - and we should think whether parents should be fined for the consequent non attendance at school.

i quite agree with it is so easy with disposable nappies to let things slide. when we had terry nappies which had to be sluiced rinsed and washed not to mention line drying or clothes horse no driers then, it did make you want to get them potty trained asap.
i think that teachers should be concerned with education not a childs toilet training

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again as this theme comes up time and time again.

I started school in the 80s (and went to nursery the year before starting).

I have very good memory from that time and can remember a lot
of things in surprising detail (like
the sorts of games we used to play, peoples names, what the carpets and curtains were like etc).

One of the many things that I remember were that there were a number of children in both nursery and reception who had CONSTANT accidents (like at least one per day).

No doubt nowadays these would be the children sent to school in pull-ups but you just couldn’t do that then (they didn’t exist in the 80s as far as I remember).

I also remember some kids who had language problems and couldn’t speak/ behave properly.

This has always been an issue. It’s nothing new…

You presumably are not a person that talks shite, but I have no idea what any of this means?

Where do we have all these illiterate stay at home moms who believe it's okaybto pee and pooh everywhere?

Is there a new UK population? I'm a Londoner, so precious little surprises me, but bar the homeless, I don't know anyone who pees everywhere and even they find somewhere private to poo, as I'm not seeing it.

Who are these nasty fuckers with these dreadful values?

We worked with the nursery to have a potty training routine whilst they were at nursery which we continued at home. Both were trained before they were 2.

That is some crap advice, but a large part of parenting is common sense and forward thinking.
What happens if they never show signs of being ready? Nappies are such a big expense, you'd want to get rid of them ASAP.

I think you need to put your name into action.

That's a disgrace. The parents 'dont have time' but you do?

As its just the last few years... I'm actually wondering if its not that children are in childcare all day while parents at working, more that parents are cutting short childcare and working from home with the children present for financial reasons. In that scenario I can definitely see nappies being easier.

When my (now young adult) started school there were 2 children among their peer group who were still in nappies. These 2 were siblings. The parents are very well known to not do an awful lot - if no - parenting. They were just lazy and did their children a massive disservice in so many ways.

The mother is now telling her eldest son she will quit work (she is perfectly able to work) so that he can support her financially.

Children should be out of nappies and know how to behave in school before they start Reception. It is a parents duty for the child's sake.