LACK OF POTTY TRAINING BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL.

[DARNLY]

I think he is just trying to make a general point that many children (not specific children with various health issues such as prematurity, of course they should have extra support and help). are turning up to school at the ages of 4/5 not potty trained at all. Parents surely must take some responsibility for this. 1 teacher, 30 plus children with what appears to be levels of up to half the classes not potty trained. This is an impossible situation for the teacher, disruptive for education and difficult to time manage and not good for the child. Along with issues of an increasing lack of discipline in some very young children, teachers are leaving in their droves, we are in crisis. They are teachers not parents and do a fine job caring for our little ones in exceptional difficult circumstances these days. I was a working midwife and mother of 3 children. It was expected among parents of reception classes to try to ensure children were potty trained Potty training surely is a parents responsibility not a teachers. I don't remember any child in any class not being potty trained or virtually there. A busy state school with 30 plus in the class.

Thank you. Appreciate this. I'll report back on my progress. My other 2 are girls. Eldest daughter I think shes going to be a lot easier. 21 months and telling me when she's pooed.

I just mean particular contexts or demographics rather than geography.

Its just I work in two infant schools and have regular interactions with other infant schools and none of us have the numbers of childrens being described here as in nappies due to lazy parents. Im talking about seeing 150 children a year personally and then the children at linked schools so im hearing about maybe 500 children each year.

I think its not happening to the extent the press are saying because I think the stats have been interpreted badly.
Are there some lazy parent not potty training. Yes. Is it a quarter or half of every class in the country. No.

The training window is 20-30 months ideally. I trained mine at around 26/27 months each. It gets it done before they get too stubborn.
Good luck with your training.

My son will be 10 in December and needs to be regularly changed at school. He has 2:1 TA support and no child in his class has ever bullied him or being unkind to him at all due to it.

Honestly, adults are far more judgemental of children with SEND than other children in my experience.

Unless there is a medical reason it’s out of order. Teachers study, get a degree, work hard and then are expected to potty train.

take a week off work in the summer and just put time aside. I stayed at home for week. Lazy parents. And yes, If no medical reasons they should be asked to come into the school to change the nappies. I work full time and did it on my own with the kids.

Yeah I agree with this. I find it suspicious that every year it seems to be record amounts of children not being potty trained as reported by the press. To me it seems that they copy and paste the same article every year.

So this ^ is exactly the sort of advice I was referring to in my post upthread, and why I think it's understandable why lots of parents wait for something that never comes, and then end up panicking with a child in nappies just before school.

By the way, do you know who paid T. Berry Brazelton, the paediatrician who first started promoting the idea that you need a child to be psychologically ready in some way for toilet training? Pampers.

Children's mental health isn't ruined if you train before 3 by the way. In fact many children want their dignity way before then.

Thank you. I'll give it a go with my son. And may try it with my daughter another time soon. Not bothered about accidents. Can get the carpet cleaned again.

EXACTLY.

The issue with that though is that at 4 and sometimes, only just 4, it isn't always obvious that there are medical reasons.

Depends. We're in East London, I would say 70-80% school parents don't speak English or it's super basic. They don't give a s*it about any meetings at school regarding potty training, healthy eating, etc.
When my son was at reception (2023)- there were literally more than half class peeing on the carpet. I even donated 15 trousers from my kids wardrobe for the teacher because parents didn't even care to send spare clothing.

When, and why, did it change from being potty trained before nursery? My son’s nursery (3+) wouldn’t admit any child in nappies. This was in the 90s. When did that stop?

Don't leave it until just before school as chance in routine / unfamiliar place may put them back. My ds had a regression about 2 months after we thought he was fully trained. We were on holiday though and I think the change in routine threw him a bit. We were avle to get back on track when we got back from holiday He was way past this and absolutely fine when he started school.

I work FT compressed hours. I took a day off to do a 4 day long weekend, and I accepted the fact that it might take a couple of weeks of extra laundry - and it did.

He's done so well that he's now initiating consistently and only has about one accident a week (usually not his fault!). He's under 2.

I think that Pampers etc have schills on social media pushing the "when they're ready it will only take 3 days and a pack of chocolate buttons" line. I don't doubt that it's true for some kids, but the majority will take a couple of weeks work, extra laundry, and people get seduced by the idea that their child will be easy at the right time.

Then they end up with a child at a less compliant age, who's been doing it the "wrong" way for years who they struggle to train.

my mother maintains I was potty trained by 9mo. Given I couldn’t walk until I was almost 3yo, I find this unbelievable!!! I suspect she just doesn’t remember what really happened in the 70s!!!

I have 2 children. Both ND. Both wore washable nappies from birth. Both summer born so started reception a few months after their 4th bday. Both went to childminder until about 2yo and then full time nursery for c2 years.

the first. A boy.

Potty trained himself. Day and night. Pretty much overnight. At just over 2yo.

He was at a Montessori nursery and all the kids under 3 were in the same room and there was a lovely bathroom with 3 mini toilets and sinks, where the kids in nappies were also changed.
I’ve no idea why he decided that was it, but he decided “no more nappies” and that was that. I had nothing to do with him being dry.

he regressed at age 6 but was short lived and we later found out his teacher was a bitch to him (found out on the last day of the year, via another parent whose little girl used to cry to her about what she saw) so in hindsight we suspect it was linked.

second child. A girl. Was interested in not wearing nappies from age 3 but we did not crack it before she turned 4, and certainly not before she started school. No specialist would see us because of her age.

eventually we begged a family friend to review her, at just turned 4 1/2yo. And discovered she had a tiny bladder.

none of the interventions worked. She still had multiple accidents every day at school up to and through Y4.

her neurodivergence plus an over active bladder combined in an unholy mess. Luckily we no longer have soiling as well. But we used to. Likely connected to constipation and a food intolerance (not an allergy which is easier to diagnose and therefore easier to evidence for school).

it is not for want of trying on our part nor interest on hers. It’s been horrendous and even with this fact pattern we could not get a referral to CAMHs for assessment as this was not considered a crisis.

we are under the hospital team for incontinence but there is no magic bullet.

an alarm from Amazon helped her become dry at night. Unfortunately the NHS did not have any alarms available so we bought our own. It resolved night time wetting within a couple of weeks. Was so quick. However day time has eluded us…… until now (well, almost!)

the usual meds for wetting did not work for us. We tried 2 over the years but had to stop the first one in the end due to side effects - never saw the benefit they were supposed to provide anyway!!

we recently went private for psychiatrist assessment which confirmed ND.
Medication for the ND means she is dry in the day at school so far this term.
not 100% in after school club and although Home is better than it was she is not cured (yet). She is now Y5, recently turned 9. It’s been a long road. And a fight.

I have been made to feel like a terrible parent. My husband has not been spoken to the same way. And all this time we have not been able to access the support our child needs because “she is not in crisis”. Judged but not supported - It’s outrageous. Wetting yourself uncontrollably after the age of 4 and especially well into junior school, should be seen as a crisis. It dents self esteem which is hard to rebuild once knocked.

the system blames the family and the child, rather than provide real support that works.

our urology nurse is lovely but she is not doing anything but monitoring!!

the medication prescribed to address DD’s ND profile, has been magic.

She has been dry every day at school this school year. Not 100% in the rest of her life but we still celebrate what feels like a massive win!!!

I’m furious we could not access it via the NHS much earlier in her school career. The suffering she has been through is unacceptable. Let alone us as a family and the poor staff at her school.

So far it has cost us over £2,500 to get to this point.

No private medical insurance will cover behavioural issues (which is how ND is classified). Even the overactive bladder is classified as behavioural rather than an urology issue. And the NHS support has been non existent.

It was MN that led me to getting the night time alarm. The only practical support NHS provided was to advise her to wear 2 pairs of pants and attach the sensor to the outer pair.

given studies show that the majority of kids going into Y1, who are still wetting in school, are eventually diagnosed as ND there should be more CAMHS led interventions in Y1 before self esteem is totally battered.

20% of school pupils may be classified as ND……
no not every wet child is ND and not every ND child has a problem, but it is a significant number which surely is an easy cohort to engage with via CAMHS and the school nurse system with support from SEN departments and local OTs.
perhaps it is postcode dependent
our experience suggests none of these groups are joined up when it is our view that they should be.

It stopped to be inclusive of children with SEND.

Some said it was discriminatory to SEN kids

Who is “he”?

I have literally never met anyone who hadn't tried potty training by 4. I think the question the teachers were asked in that survey included children who were having regular accidents, not just children wearing nappies, so it's quite misleading. There were no children at all in nappies in my DS's year R class last year.

FWIW though I've met loads of autistic children and adults who weren't diagnosed age 4, including my own children. One of mine wasn't toilet trained at 4 but was by the time he started school because he was older in the year.

I’m not sure you could say all children need specialist school if they aren’t fully potty trained by 4

To those blaming working mums or "parents" and calling them lazy, you must at least understand how idiotic you sound - its those few who stay at home that are lazy or lazier , not the women who work 😂
calling women juggling childcare lazy
Bbc has definitely rotted your brains.

If you haven't been able to employ the power of critical thinking or analytical skills, at least use the power of observation. Those that aren't able to toilet themselves probably had a mum at home for 5 years.

We’ve been potty training for 9 months and my son (almost 4) will wee on the toilet/ potty but will not poo. We have tried every method (including oh crap), read books with him, sang songs and nothing works. I have asked the GP and health visitor and they said to keep doing what we’re doing. Absolutely no chance of a referral anywhere.

I’ve worked damn hard and yet I have to listen to people talking about how I must be a lazy parent. Do people not stop to think about how what they’re spouting off may make others feel. I am already worried and feel judged every time he has an accident in public.

There is no known neurodiversity, he is reaching all his other milestones but according to people here he should be stopped from starting school or I have to give up my job to go in and change him (so I can’t pay my bills). Luckily he is at a private nursery at present who are understanding.

Like the above poster said those who haven’t been in the situation won’t understand. Having a child who grasped potty training easily doesn’t make you an amazing parent it makes you lucky. For context my oldest child was potty trained at 2 (it took a day) and night dry by 2 and a half. My youngest is his different, so get off your high horses and have some understanding for others.

Yep.

My son doesn't need special school because he has toileting needs, he just needs extra support which is what he gets. He is thriving in Mainstream.

Even if special schools had all of the spaces in the world, a child isn't going to be accepted just because they have toileting needs.

In retrospect my (then undiagnosed) ADHD combined with the utter, relentless boredom of trying to potty train my “I love my nappies !” DS is probably why it wasn’t successful. Relentless boredom is my Kryptonite. It’s a wonder I survived his baby and toddlerhood cos there were many boring stretches in between the “oh shit he’s learned to climb” excitement.

Thank god for MIL. The summer before he was due to start nursey school (only available to potty trained kidlets) she bribed him with a 1€ coin per pee in the loo. The 1€ coin was constantly recycled due to him being unable to count and not really understanding money. The first number 2 in the loo cost 5€. He was allowed to keep it and she took him to spend it right after. No payment was required to perform after that one off “lottery win”.

He’s now 25 and while I’m relentlessly campaigning for him to help with the Italian birth rate crisis and offering myself up for endless baby sitting and head sniffing, I’ve told him not to rope me in for potty training his future children. Cos his Grandmother is long gone, and I am an abject failure in the subject.

I genuinely feel for anybody who can’t get the hang of how to make little nappy lovers switch over to potty or loo. But I wave the flag for the (potentially deeply old fashioned cos MIL was Silent Gen) bribery with actual cash method if anybody is desperate for something, anything, that might work.