Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

Another patronising, goady and snobbish post from a very superior person.

OP, when can we anticipate a post from you insisting that “diversity is our strength”?

It’s nonsense anyway. Most western countries are mid tussle over immigration. Politicians might not like it but voters are putting on pressure. All the lack of critical thinking / populism stuff is the status quo concern against pushback.

Love it! Your pro immigration as long as they are people like you.

I don’t think those that are in the left/labour are listening to this and understanding this is what is concerning people.
I could be mean and say they don’t care because they think it won’t affect them, but they really need to understand this instead of just trying to criticise anyone who is unhappy with immigration and/or is going to vote reform.

The difference is that we can now no longer count on any cooperation from France at all to stop people crossing the channel in small boats.

Thank you for clarifying that the man was not, in fact, rescuing the swan.

‘Today a Cambridgeshire Police spokesperson said a man in his 30s from Peterborough has been given a community resolution in relation to this, with conditions to donate £100 to the Swan Sanctuary charity and participate in a Thinking Skills course.’

Yet you don’t see that this sort of rhetoric is what is driving people into Reform’s arms?

No one is debating them. No one is picking apart their arguments and thought processes.
All anyone is doing is calling them racist, fascist, naive, stupid, uneducated, violent, thugs, rapists, wife-beaters, the list goes on.

I’ve read umpteen threads on here about Reform, and not a single one of them has put forward counter-arguments. They’ve all just expressed fear and loathing. Way to go, MN!

What is wrong with that? We have to live together as a cohesive and collaborative society. How can this be done with people that fundamentally oppose our core values? If we fir example fundamentally believe that men and women are equal and shouldn't be denied opportunities on the basis of their sex then how is this compatible in anyway with someone that believes women are inferior and should be denied the most basic of rights. How do we deal with children born into families with these beliefs when we would view the treatment of their daughters as child abuse?

I agree that talking and a strong opposition is good. That’s partly how we’re in this mess - the Conservatives obviously didn’t do well but they desperately needed a good opposition and Labour were terrible at it. Now they’re in power and finding out it’s not as easy as they thought it would be, after carping from the sidelines for years.

What actual policies that Reform have would you say are indicative of fascism?

Their biggest policy atm seems to be on the ILR and the government have just adopted much of their ideas. Do we also have a Labour government that is moving towards fascism?

Why do we need immigration to sustain our population? Why do we have a falling birth rate? Wouldn’t it be more sustainable to incentivise our young people to have children, this could be done by improving affordable access to childcare, or transference of full personal tax allowances between parents to support one of them to stay home until children are at school. I have two adult children in their 30’s, neither of which are ever likely to have children as they can’t get on the property ladder in London/South East as they are spending half their salaries on renting (£1800 a month for a tiny two bed house just inside the M25). They don’t feel they have the financial security to bring a child into the world. We need to think outside the box, just importing people from abroad is not a long term solution.

Obviously that’s not true. Drones, surveillance, police in riot gear. The French did a few photo ops with tear gas and knifing boats but there’s no way this kind of force should fall to them.

Any EU country that has lowered numbers has used barriers at their borders. Nothing to do with the EU or Brexit, more outside that.

Pretty much, yes. Not least because an awful lot of the immigrants I know and like have come here to get away from somewhere worse and bringing the problems they tried to escape would be totally counterproductive.

Yes. The ‘so-called’ bit in the OP gave you away @ChocolateMagnum

How do we deal with children born into families with these beliefs when we would view the treatment of their daughters as child abuse?

That is a very strong assertion. What exactly do you mean?

I disagree. I think anyone who doesn't see millionaire Farage as a big fat racist is completely thick.

And those who can’t will do what, exactly?

I agree. That they believe he will actually stick around in the UK and work as PM should Reform win is laughable.

Macron has 18 months left as President. Do you really think any of the candidates who might replace him are going to be interested in stopping migrants they don't want in France from travelling to the UK?

Well he's not big or fat. But otherwise, spot on.

If a daughter was being denied fundamental freedoms and rights in our country because they were female then this could be considered child abuse. For example, if they were forced to take part in child marriage, denied an education or even physically abused.

So you are trying to imply it’s racist to point out that it’s rude and intimidating especially when they are clearly talking about the teenage girls walking past? Seriously?

Some people may have lost all concept of what a successful society entails - common language, common values like not being rude to people (drastically undermined in recent years for *reasons), not hanging around as an intimidating group of men speaking a foreign language, but the rest of us haven’t.

Yeah...
"They're eating the pets!" Sounds familiar...

Is that you realising yes the French do do a lot now. Switch to this.

And of course it could change, it probably will a fair bit, still nothing to do with Brexit or not.

All those things are illegal here. So families coming here would and do accept living under our laws.

There will be a minority who will break those laws, but child abuse is not confined to people of one particular culture, is it?

‘Today a Cambridgeshire Police spokesperson said a man in his 30s from Peterborough has been given a community resolution in relation to this, with conditions to donate £100 to the Swan Sanctuary charity and participate in a Thinking Skills course.’

The man in question, pictured in CCTV:

www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/crime/man-given-community-resolution-after-reports-of-swan-attack-at-peterborough-embankment-4390669?fbclid=IwY2xjawNHPR9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHhA91x4YsZJIzkns0_wfmXmy0aEAZosnWKLGSP0CYcWIFXMTQBhBDu3lbL7j_aem_A5eeT2TEN0BzYEiQBT4QYQ