Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

Not every Reform voter is racist or naive. Some are just fed up with Labour and the Conservatives fucking up the country.

As long as people are bearing in mind that Reform's leader has played a not-inconsiderable role in doing the fucking up, from his role in the Brexit vote. The amount our country has spent due to immigration is a drop in the ocean compared to what we lost due to that idiocy.

I don't know what an appropriate level of immigration would be, but I don't think Reform is any more capable of identifying that that level is and figuring out how to achieve it than Labour or the Conservatives.

I think if you put Reform behind the wheel all that will happen is innocent people will be collateral damage.

That's not true there is only party that had to kick its own leader out for anti-semetism. Although many in Labour don't seem to think that being anti jew is racist which says a lot.

Any party that attempts that would need a bloody robust plan to deal with the fallout. And Reform sure as shit doesn't have one.

If you’re pro-democracy and believe that the UK is still a democratic country, could you explain why the public have voted for nearly thirty years for parties who’ve pledged to lower immigration, and no meaningful action has been taken. We’ve had more immigration to this country in the last twenty years than in all the previous thousand years combined. Were the British people ever consulted as to whether they welcomed or wanted this change to the fabric of their society? Why do politicians feel able to ignore the public they supposedly represent?

Why are ID cards are now being forced upon us? This was not in Labour’s manifesto, we did not vote for this, and their introduction will do absolutely nothing to deter illegal immigrants from working in this country illegally. How do you believe this to be democratic?

When we have 438 government quangos making decisions and spending taxpayer’s money - is this democracy in action? These people are unelected and we cannot remove them. They do not answer to us. Yet their decisions have enormous consequences for us.

Why the need for a new term ‘populism’ instead of democracy, when they mean the same thing? Populism seem to mean those opinions that the majority of the population hold, but are seen to be wrong or misguided by our leaders and liberal elites who have no intention of listening to the people they purport to represent, much less acting on their wishes.

We no longer live in a democracy; there was a time when everyone abided by the law, because it was our law. We made it. We were all present in parliament, either personally or represented there by an elected official. We all bought into it. Now we have an elite class who see their job as dictating to the proles how they should live, what they should believe, what they should think, and what is best for them. That’s not the way we used to do things in this country. Our representatives in government are there to serve our interests. It is not for them to decide what’s best for us. We decide - they need to implement our wishes. That’s the democracy we had, and we need to restore it.

Based on what?

This is where the real naivety is I think... Nothing really changes. Con, Lab, Libs, they are all propped up by the same civil service, regulators, quangos, whatever, and those just carry on regardless of who is in charge. MPs do not really control it, not meaningfully, and all the info they get is filtered through various bodies with their own bias/motives so we end up with the same direction no matter who we vote for.People are not voting Reform because they are racist or naive. They are voting Reform because they do not want more of the same. AAndwho can blane them.. cost of living iis awful NHS satisfaction is down to 24% (lowest since records began in the 80s), big firms are scaling back or moving operations out, immigration dipped a bit but is still over 600,000 net last year, and the illegal side of it is handled so badly you can literally see it in towns with all the hotels.
Most people do not have the time to read policy papers or dig through data they are working, raising kids, dealing witg real life. But they're feeling and seeing things getting worse and they know its not exactly what they voted for.
Labour cant undo 20 plus years of mess overnight, fair enough, but their messaging has been poor and their early calls have not helped, and Tories are basically silent (Maybe they are regrouping?Who knows?. But its left a gap and Reform are filling it.
That does not make Reform voters Nazis, the Germany comparison is a bit of a stretch and shows naivity/limited understanding of what led to it in the first place. Back then you had hyperinflation, war reparations, street militias, democratic institutions collapsing, a whole cocktail of stuff. Saying a protest vote here is the same thing just isnt a fair comparison.
Reform voters are not naive, Theyve noticed things aren't exactly great and they have had enough. They're looking for an actual alternative to the same two parties that are bothplaying from the same book. writing them off as stupid or dangerous just proves the point that theyre not being listened to and thr current ststem isnt serving them.

Yep, you make good points. On the digital ID and the term ‘populism’.

Weird logistic that the absence of evidence is proof of something. I have no evidence that the squirrels at the end of the garden aren't planning to take over the world and turn me into a Acorn pealing slave, but it doesn't keep me up at night worrying about it.

Can you provide a link to where these photos are from, please?

EXACTLY!

.

Europe was being used as a route into this country by people from those Islamic countries. But as we were part of the whole, we couldn’t control our borders at all.

Now we at least have the possibility of control if our government took it.

Well now we have even less ability to control it than we did before, thanks to Brexit.

Slow hand clap for Farage.

I too notice this “critical thinking” being played out by people who think they are superior to others.
Where did this come from as it seems only recently it’s being parroted on mn.

We do.. the nhs isn't working. I'd rather pay private and actually get a decent care

Are you sure? Why are other countries still in the EU facing the same pressures? Which of those countries have lowered the numbers, take a look at borders

This man?

‘A man has been given a community resolution after reports were made of a swan attack in Peterborough.’

Women on MN say others lack critical thinking, rather than saying they think they are stupid purely as MNHQ remove the later as personal attacks.

Can you provide any attribution to those pictures? And if so, why didn’t Farage produce them when James O’Brian asked him for evidence when he made the swan eating claim on LBC recently?

Maybe I can help:

So the core tenets of fascism are:

1. Economic intervention which is typically associated with the left
2. Social Welfare to address social inequality- typically associated with the left
3. Corporate State collaboration- challenging the notion of a purely free market economy. Typically a left wing view.
4. Populism - can be both a left wing and a right wing ideology.
5. Collectivism - state controlled education, health care, transportation, energy etc . Very much a left wing ideology.
6. Patriotism and Traditionalism- for example the surge in St George's cross flags being put up. This is typically associated with the right wing.
7. Conservative social values- for example traditional views on say transgender and what is a man or a woman . This is typically associated with the right wing.
8. Militarism - having a strong military which is typically associated with the right. However given current financial constraint in the UK it could be argued that neither right or left have the Government budget to implement this.

From a US perspective:

Glad to see a few other people on this thread who are just politically homeless and deeply concerned too.

I don't plan to vote reform because I think there are too many parallels with the rise of various deeply unpleasant dictators. I'm also deeply worried about the current state of the country, including the kind of immigration I am seeing and the country we are creating for our children. I'm actually pro immigration provided those immigrating hold key values (democracy, womens' and LGBT rights, education, etc.), integrate, and contribute to the community whether through taxes mostly or pillar of the community type behaviour.

Which party can I vote for? Because so far all of them stand against one of my key concerns.

People like - and follow - politicians who say what they want to hear. Who have easy solutions. Who create problems so they can 'fix' them later. Who say they care, regardless of their actions.

Yes - with age I realised that, as humans, we are very, very naive.

Oh. OK. So FB post I found was wrong. But even so, no evidence that he planned to eat it as per Farage's rhetoric.