Page 30 | Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

ChocolateMagnum · 2025-09-29T07:00:52+00:00

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive? I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again. Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 19:53

Clavinova · 29/09/2025 19:24

PandoraSocks
The swan eating claims are completely spurious and were over twenty years ago when they first appeared. Not one person has been proven to have caught and eaten a swan

I did actually find a few prosecutions - 2014 the most recent.
All four men were convicted:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7742128/Chef-kills-swan.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/swan-killer-i-like-the-queen-and-didn-t-know-what-type-of-bird-it-was-but-it-tasted-nice-9468710.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6174344.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4735461.stm

All lovely English names

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 19:54

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 19:53

All lovely English names

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Officers found the swan chopped into pieces and jammed into Fidan’s freezer when they traced him to his home in Tonbridge, Kent.

He added: “I took it home, I took out the feathers, I cut it up and ate some of it. I wanted to see what it tasted like. It tasted nice. I put the rest in the freezer. When the police came to me and asked me if I had killed a bird, I said yes. I did not realise it was wrong. The police took away what was left in my freezer.
“I am sorry to everyone. I have been to court. I will pay my fine.” Fidan, who is unemployed, said he had been living in Britain since 2006.

I hope he finds another job as a doctor or engineer soon.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 19:54

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 19:52

No, you have made this up or heard it from an unreliable source.

Many windrush people were given idl. Many husbands and wives. Many children. It was seen, long ago, as a way of not giving citizenship outright, but honouring a right to remain in the UK and be treated as a citizen. It was given to people who were soldiers in the British army who chose to settle here, as an example.

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It's clear from @BundleBoogie's posts that s/he hasn't got the first fucking clue what indefinite leave to remain is.

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 19:55

BundleBoogie · 29/09/2025 19:12

Thank you. I have been told to shut up on other threads.

I am just a normal mum who isn’t a racist (and bored of the accusation) and wants us all to be able to have open conversations about this.

At least the government acknowledging the issue helps that a bit. I feel like, despite a bit of roughhousing that we are at least making some progress on here.

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If you think people who are legally allowed to be here should have their right to that removed, because of where they were born, then I'm afraid you are racist.

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 19:55

I’ve a test for people who really think this is racist, and can’t understand why people don’t think it is

Here is the clip that got Laurence Fox banned from acting/ everything

10 years later I’d think 99% of people would be on his side,

I see the same with this, people who think it’s racist are just very very behind

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/iSwH6qHyAO8?feature=shared

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 19:56

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 19:55

If you think people who are legally allowed to be here should have their right to that removed, because of where they were born, then I'm afraid you are racist.

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Racist/xenophobe, yes.

scorpiogirly · 29/09/2025 19:57

That's how I view the left. Either dangerously naive or just downright dangerous.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 19:58

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 19:55

I’ve a test for people who really think this is racist, and can’t understand why people don’t think it is

Here is the clip that got Laurence Fox banned from acting/ everything

10 years later I’d think 99% of people would be on his side,

I see the same with this, people who think it’s racist are just very very behind

Yeah yeah, you're not a racist, but you agree with people having their indefinite leave to remain revoked.

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 19:58

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 19:55

If you think people who are legally allowed to be here should have their right to that removed, because of where they were born, then I'm afraid you are racist.

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What if they’re a criminal? Rapist? Been claiming benefits for 15 years?

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 20:00

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 19:51

Don’t be salty. If you said this never happened, and it turns out it did, and multiple times, graciously accept you were wrong and don’t seek to downplay.

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Not salty at all. I am as ever in awe of clav's efforts. I am quite sure if there are any other swan-eating convictions to be found, she will dig them up.

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 20:01

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 20:00

Not salty at all. I am as ever in awe of clav's efforts. I am quite sure if there are any other swan-eating convictions to be found, she will dig them up.

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Why shouldn’t she? She’s proved you wrong. You thought it was so ridiculous it couldn’t be true. It is. What does that tell you?

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 20:02

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 19:51

Don’t be salty. If you said this never happened, and it turns out it did, and multiple times, graciously accept you were wrong and don’t seek to downplay.

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Don’t be salty. A good addition to language, works well.

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 20:02

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 19:58

What if they’re a criminal? Rapist? Been claiming benefits for 15 years?

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What if they are not?
Everything you are saying is a supposition or an unsubstantiated rumour. A feeling.

But you are playing with people's lives. Real people.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 20:04

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 20:02

What if they are not?
Everything you are saying is a supposition or an unsubstantiated rumour. A feeling.

But you are playing with people's lives. Real people.

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That's not even the policy.

The policy is to abolish it altogether, remove it from people who already have it, and make people apply for temporary visas.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53070-what-do-britons-really-think-about-scrapping-indefinite-leave-to-remain

According to this, about 1 in 20 people surveyed thinks that people who currently have indefinite leave to remain and are married to a British citizen or have a child who is a British citizen should be made to leave the country.

And Farage's policy would enable that.

But why?

If the problem is people in small boats, why attack people with indefinite leave to remain?

What do Britons really think about scrapping indefinite leave to remain? | YouGov

Ending the granting of ILR divides the public – and most are opposed to removing it from those who already hold it

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53070-what-do-britons-really-think-about-scrapping-indefinite-leave-to-remain

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 29/09/2025 20:06

AxMxPfan · 29/09/2025 18:26

This. 💯

The person you are quoting who is quoting me doesn’t seem to understand that Turkey (and the Middle East for that matter) used to be Christian about 2000 years ago. The oldest cities of Christendom were in the Middle East- Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem- and they were quickly conquered by Muslims who converted people by the sword and by seizing the women and selling them as slaves. So, before that, they had their own culture that was totally devoid of Islam.

Wha I loved about the UK was how blissfully unaware you could be about the horrors of Islam because this country was undeniably western and Christian, it had a strong identity… not anymore. British identity is in danger of being eroded.

If people think that what happened in backwards Islamic nations like Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan can’t happen here because their culture is somehow backwards, let me disavow you of that illusion, their culture is backwards because of Islam - a medieval religion that is 100% resistant to change because of blasphemy laws. What makes them think that by importing young men from such countries on an industrial scale is not going to shift the demographics permanently? Does breathing in British air and eating British food automatically make someone British?

On the other hand, I do see where she is coming from. That kind of sh!t won’t happen here…. yet. If we act now, we can slow it down and then stop it massively. We can become defenders of British and Western culture by never being complacent.

It’s getting to a stage where I don’t care what anyone says about i**ophobia because contrary to what people think, it’s lefties who are afraid. They are so afraid that they become cowards and let that religion and culture take over their own because of their fear of confrontation. The only people they feel brave enough to confront are the patriots.

People like us are supposedly playing a dangerous game by showing support for Reform but I would argue that the Far-Right are easier to defeat than Islamofascism.

Hearing about the grooming gangs has been so depressing and has brought back memories of all the wrongs that are done to women in Turkey on a daily basis. It is oddly familiar and it doesn’t surprise me at all that it has taken place but what is devastating in all of this is the way the authorities automatically sided with the perpetrators because of their religion. In other words, showing favouritism to a group that is supposedly vulnerable and therefore a protected group but who are in reality the aggressor.

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Oh I’m hearing you loud and clear and I thank you.

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 20:08

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 20:01

Why shouldn’t she? She’s proved you wrong. You thought it was so ridiculous it couldn’t be true. It is. What does that tell you?

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It tells me that killing swans to eat is a very sad and cruel thing to do, but thankfully a rare crime (on present evidence).

1dayatatime · 29/09/2025 20:09

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 19:55

If you think people who are legally allowed to be here should have their right to that removed, because of where they were born, then I'm afraid you are racist.

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I don't think anyone has ILR who is net contributing to the economy (paying more in taxes than their family unit takes in state spending) should be removed from the country because that would be economically dumb.

However if they are not net contributing to the economy
then it would be economically smart to remove them.

Despite your best left wing efforts to throw the words racism, fascism etc around, this has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with economics.

1dayatatime · 29/09/2025 20:10

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 20:08

It tells me that killing swans to eat is a very sad and cruel thing to do, but thankfully a rare crime (on present evidence).

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And maybe admit that you were proved wrong?

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 20:10

Reform want to revoke legal migrants rights to live in the UK.

They say they can change the law. They can change it retrospectively. If they are voted in they say they have the power to change the law retrospectively.

This means they are actively saying they can boot out whoever they like. Anyone.

This is facism.

Please do not vote reform. If you have concerns about immigration please talk to you MP or campaign other parties to introduce policies you agree with.

Voting for a party that openly states they will change the law in retrospect is punching yourseyin the face. You could be next.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 20:10

1dayatatime · 29/09/2025 20:09

I don't think anyone has ILR who is net contributing to the economy (paying more in taxes than their family unit takes in state spending) should be removed from the country because that would be economically dumb.

However if they are not net contributing to the economy
then it would be economically smart to remove them.

Despite your best left wing efforts to throw the words racism, fascism etc around, this has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with economics.

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Right, so if a woman comes to the UK and contributes and pays taxes and gets indefinite leave to remain, marries a British man, has British kids and takes a few years out of the workforce to raise her children, should she be deported? What if she has an accident or gets ill and becomes disabled?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 20:12

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 20:10

Reform want to revoke legal migrants rights to live in the UK.

They say they can change the law. They can change it retrospectively. If they are voted in they say they have the power to change the law retrospectively.

This means they are actively saying they can boot out whoever they like. Anyone.

This is facism.

Please do not vote reform. If you have concerns about immigration please talk to you MP or campaign other parties to introduce policies you agree with.

Voting for a party that openly states they will change the law in retrospect is punching yourseyin the face. You could be next.

I mean, they're openly saying they want to leave the ECHR.

If you think that Farage and his cronies would leave the ECHR just to make it easier to deport illegal immigrants but leave all YOUR human rights intact you are an absolute dumbass.

Here4the · 29/09/2025 20:12

1dayatatime · 29/09/2025 20:09

I don't think anyone has ILR who is net contributing to the economy (paying more in taxes than their family unit takes in state spending) should be removed from the country because that would be economically dumb.

However if they are not net contributing to the economy
then it would be economically smart to remove them.

Despite your best left wing efforts to throw the words racism, fascism etc around, this has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with economics.

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That's a bit much, some of them are kids. If you decided on everyone based on what they were like at 16 some of us would still be using sun in and ranking our friends on MySpace.

Clavinova · 29/09/2025 20:18

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 19:50

That is very impressive digging clav. You should be proud.

I shall amend my statement to: four people over a twenty year period have been convicted of swan eating. The most recent was in 2014.

Is that OK?

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You should be proud

As proud as a swan.

Fleetheart · 29/09/2025 20:18

AxMxPfan · 29/09/2025 12:46

OP, I feel exactly as you do. I fear fascism, the erosion of democracy and the decline of our culture… with the twist that I 💯 agree with Reform and believe that people with opinions like yours are the ones being naive. Let me explain why.

I am from Turkey and am from a religious minority group there. In 1993, Islamists attacked and burned down Madimak hotel in Sivas province, killing 37 young intellectuals from my religion who were gathered for a special event. Turkey is a country riddled with sectarian violence and religion plays a big role in this. Christians, Jews and Alevis have managed to live side by side in peace and the Sunnis haven’t. They see us as infidels and constantly seek to gain dominance over us and they have succeeded.
In 1923, Ataturk created the Turkish Republic and one of its tenets was the separation of mosque and government. In fact, it forced modernisation on every citizen by suppressing religion in the hope that people would become secular. It worked for a while but eventually, secular families ended up having fewer children (2-3) from the 60s onwards with the introduction of the contraceptive pill and greater urbanisation. Rural extremist/conservative Muslim families had on average 7 children and their numbers ballooned. They started using democracy to gain national power and in 2002 became the ruling party after years of having Erdogan in the position of Istanbul mayor. They relentlessly pursued power by pretending to be meek and moderate when they were a political minority. When they came to power, they wooed voters with economic growth and development and intimidated secular Muslims by reminding them that they were Muslim first and foremost. They created divisions and polarised the population. When I went to live there in 2010, it was a fragile democracy/anocracy but now Erdogan has consolidated so much power that it’s not even an anocracy, it’s practically a dictatorship. With so much power, they then plundered the country and were very corrupt. Now, the economy is in tatters, with ridiculous inflation decimating people’s incomes.

I grew up in the UK and am grateful for everything in the West but I fear that it will succumb to Islamism. There are already 85
islamic Councils in the UK that ‘advise’ (in the future they would simply dictate) people based on sharia law. Sharia law states that a woman’s testimony is half of a man’s, that adulterers should be stoned, that apostates should be killed…

I don’t think western liberals or lefties can even get their heads around how unbearable it is to live in an Islamic country. Sure, it’s not as bad as North Korea in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran but it’s because people still have the freedom to visit the West and have access to media that connects them to western ideas and thoughts so it’s like having a window that opens whereas North Korea is like living in an underground bunker with an abusive family member with no hope of escape.

There is something fundamentally wrong with Islam and it can never be fixed because it is impossible to reform it due to its own blasphemy laws and customs. In the West, they seek to tie our hands and gag us with the made-up term ‘Islamophobia’. When we criticise it, we are met with anger and hatred from Muslims and a similar reaction from leftists who gaslight us. When we make very compelling, logical arguments against the religion, we’re lied to by ordinary Muslims who practice ‘taqiyya’ to further the cause of Islam. We’re dealing with a slippery eel that refuses to look you straight in the eye and instead attacks and disorients its opponent.

I am betting that this comment will get deleted.

The strange thing is, I’m not against immigration at all. I’m just against immigration from that religion. I voted for Remain because I love Europeans. I have nothing against people from the Far East, Latin America or Africa coming here in the millions and putting a strain on services or bringing their own culture with them… as long as they are not of a religion that wants to destroy the West.

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thank you for your post. It’s very interesting Nd I can understand your fears. I think that’s why it’s really important that Labour and others do stand firm on what we call our British values. They shouldn’t be eroded. But make no mistake Reform are not the people. We have just this week seen their elected representative in Wales found guilty of taking bribes from Russia! These people are sadly not patriotic. Nigel Farage has been briefing the US that there is no free speech in the UK. That is actually traitorous. Let’s not fall for them please. They are self serving not people serving.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 29/09/2025 20:20

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 17:06

Its made up data.

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I believe it is an approximate estimate, why what do you think it will be.