Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

Where on earth are you getting those figures from?

Unfortunately the data is obscured by a worldwide pandemic and a war on European soil. I work in a business that trades significantly with the EU. Additional admin (at the beginning a real pain, but now just part of the routine, similar to trading with the U.S.) has been the only impact.

Why do they think this isn’t happening? Are they so entrenched in their privilege of believing this country will always be democratic and equal ‘because it just will’ that they can’t face up to it? Makes me wants to put my head in my hands and weep. No doubt one day they’ll wonder ‘why nobody saw this coming, the numbers were obvious’

This is a small minority in the statistics. If the SAHMs are mums of school aged children then yes, ideally they should work. Why not? This is especially true if they are relying on state support to stay at home

I think we all remember the absolutely disaster of pick for Britain. You can't force our of work people into jobs they aren't qualified or capable for. Caring for vulnerable people isn't a role we should be talking about so blithely.

Right, but there are people who choose to stay at home because they don't want to work and they don't need to work because their partner earns enough to support the family.

How do you plan to force them to wipe people's bums?

Labour won the 2024 election with a massive majority this would be the case all over the country, are you honestly arguing that Labour voters were/are all naive.

Exactly this.

Do you understand data. That's rhetorical by the way.

Do you, that's almost unbelievable. Yes so did I as do most of my colleagues, husband and friends, sadly a bit of extra admin has not been the only detrimental impact of Brexit. Understatement of the year!!

Why are you lying? The referendum for Brexit took place on 23 June 2016. That's almost 9 years 3 months ago (assuming today's date is 29 September 2025). We then departed the EU on 31 January 2020. That's almost 5 years 8 months ago. In what universe are either of those dates fifteen fucking years ago? You know arguing about the merits of Brexit is one thing. Lying about when it happened when it's so fucking easy to check just makes you look desperate.

That is a very arrogant and potentially misguided view

Some Muslim groups have clearly stated an aim to take over. Postal voting controlled by community leaders, voter apathy and block voting have given Muslims a disproportionate voice in society.

The Muslim Council of Britain works closely with the government and appears to have influence where we don’t see the same level of influence from other similar sized groups. They are even getting to define ‘Islamophobia’ in order to have a chilling effect on criticism of undesirable practices.

In the past Keir Starmer has actually acted FOR an extremist group. Is he biased? I know there is a cab rank system on cases for barristers but he seems to have gone above and beyond here.

From the article:

Sir Keir Starmer acted on behalf of an extremist Islamist group seeking to overturn a ban imposed on its activities in Germany, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
The Labour leader led a team of lawyers claiming that Berlin’s prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir breached the group’s rights to freedom of religion and expression.
The KC submitted an application to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in June 2008, a year after the Conservatives first began demanding that the Labour government ban the group. David Cameron told the Commons that the group had called for Jews to be killed “wherever they are found”, and was “poisoning the minds of young people” – claims denied by Hizb ut-Tahrir.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/

And if they're not? You have a really naive worldview if you think that the gaps in industries are going to be filled by everyone that's economically inactive. @MissScarletInTheBallroom made a relevant point that many women stay at home to look after their children, partly driven by the costs of childcare. Most of these women aren't claiming benefits or if they are it's to keep their NI contributions up, they're not going to suddenly go back to full time work just because they can't claim child benefit anymore. Most of the jobs we need filling aren't ones that can work around school hours so your school aged children point doesn't make any sense. Even if they were forced back into work by your genius plan, people can't do jobs they aren't qualified or trained for. Unless you have some stats about the % of our of work people that have their care certificate sitting idle, you have no point.

None of the people my age that I know that are screaming their support for reform have ever registered to vote.

They actively live off grid. Most of them are criminal, trying to avoid child maintenance, or avoiding debt collectors.

I do know a few well to do elderly people who want to vote reform through work, but as soon as you sit down and chat with them about reforms actual policies they become confused and say Nigel would never allow that.

They have all shown me countless AI photos of hoards of storming brown men coming up the beaches. They have starting showing me videos of swans. They all love the flag.
None of these people I have spoken to seem to support reforms policies, yet they want to vote for good old Nigel. I haven't said anything to them, it would be unethical. I meet them through work. I do my job, have a chat and leave.

I find this incredibly troubling. I think reform are unethical. I think they are purposely lying to people.

As I said earlier, which everyone ignored:

Reform want to retrospectively change the law on immigration. They are openly saying they will do it and that they can.
This leaves every single resident of the UK open to having their human rights removed. It is deathly serious.

If you want a government that addresses any immigration concerns you have, please campaign for that through mps, and do not vote for a party that does not respect you.

Every argument i have seen for reform on social media is steeped in misinformation.

If you actually care, then please actually just Google it. Read a couple of sites. Don't believe the images on any social media. And I include Mumsnet in that. Have a look. Look at who funds those sites.

If you still want to vote reform, then go ahead. That is an informed decision and I respect that you have made it.

But please don't believe anyone on any form of social media. Go out and look yourselves.

In 2024 Labour 'won' on 20% of the vote share. More precisely 20% of the eligible voting population. They won on 9.7 million votes.

Let's add some perspective:

Starmer 'won' on 500,000 fewer votes than Jeremy Corbyn got in 2019 and 3 million fewer votes than Jeremy Corbyn got in 2017, and both of those years Corbyn lost.

I think what I'm trying to get at here is that the First Past The Post system doesn't work anymore. Yet for some reason, nobody wants to change it. I wonder why that is.

I doubt very much that would happen
look At what labour and tories said they’d do
how much of that happened

It's not so hard to review policies on their own merit and detatch them from spats grounded in nothing but left/right purity politics. Not on anyone's team.

Labour have literally announced an almost identical set of policies about ILTR. Are they proto-fascist too now? It's just hysterical

A pp said that in 40 years the UK population will be 24% Muslim.

I don't know where the data is from, but even if the prediction came true I am not sure why it makes you want to weep? Why would that mean the UK ceases to be democractic and equal? What is it you fear will happen?

What I don’t understand is why everyone (including this dramatic- and slightly disingenuous “I’m scared, it’s another Hitler” post) is giving them airtime. The more you give it oxygen, the more it gathers momentum. We are 4 years away from a general election. A week is a long time in politics- 4 years is an eternity.

Reform love all this hand wringing, it gives them an even broader platform.

It is also worth noting that the only democratic vote I have ever personally agreed with and been on the side of was

Boaty mcboatface.

Which I think was rejected even though it won.

So do please all do your own research that is NOT on social media.

What has happened in every other Islamic country?

Do women have equal rights? Are people spared inhumane punishment? Are people allowed to openly be LGBT?

Why would you vote for a party unless you actually think they will do what they say they will?

I don’t want to be rude but I don’t think you understand what she has written.
You are coming from a place of having a choice and laws and civility which is naive if you believe that against this person’s words.

24% of the population being Muslim does not result in the UK becoming an Islamic country. How could it?

It's the system we had/have though, just because Reform were a bit crap and like to play victim, it doesn't mean they have a valid point, they don't.