Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

@TorroFerney don’t worry about it. You’re talking to a brick wall as you’ve just seen evidence of (as have we all). It’s another reason Reform are becoming more popular with many people, including ex Labour voters, ex Tories etc. 🤷‍♀️

You’re doing it, too.

And when Reform get in, it’ll be people like you who I’ll be blaming.

What on earth makes you think Reform will be able to deliver where Labour can't?

Farage famously can't even be arsed to go to meetings.

Ah does this apply to the other pictures then.

You keep responding to things I haven’t posted. If Macron is out and we get a flood of what you call ‘undesirables’ it will be Starmer who is still in.

If that happens it will impact votes for our GE.

I think abolishing the undemocratic house of lords and replacing it with a democratically elected second house, and referendum on PR would enhance democracy. Both of these are resisted by Labour and the Tories as they mean a two party system is more likely.

So why don’t they or are they deliberately not doing so.

@AxMxPfan thank you for sharing your experience. I don't agree with all your conclusions but you've given me something to look into.

I worry that the people with the least privilege here are the ones who both feel negative effects first and are not listened to when they speak about them.

🙄

Religion has no place in politics. I think that's what poisons the well invariably. Any form of extremism is loathsome, whatever the religion. But again, Reform is not the solution, just a different poison. The real issue is that large portions of working class areas in the UK have been completely neglected so social cohesion has suffered as a result. We won't solve those issues by revoking the rights of people who are already here. We should focus on making sure society is more secular and our institutions more robust. The disgusting behaviour of the Rotherham gangs for example was handled absolutely terribly. Cowardice all round created a lot of resentment. That's more the issue. We must punish crime wherever it stems from. As for Sharia, of course it has no formal place in the UK, nor should it ever do. It's one law for all. Customs and beliefs should be personal and tolerated as long as they fall within the law of the land. All those ideas are held by mainstream parties. I can't see what Reform would do to improve on social cohesion - what I can see is how they stoke hatred and division. Finally, legal immigration is overwhelmingly from students and overseas workers that we badly need in a number of crucial areas. What should we do to fulfil our needs then? Illegal immigration is a very small % overall.

Yes, OK. Whose votes? Dimwits who think Farage'll fix it?

Like I said, FAFO.

It's ironic that we also have the hand-wringing about our falling birth rate. Some of us think the world is cruel place to bring children into (one reason of many for not reproducing). Yes, I know, the thinking is that we need more younger people to pay taxes, instead of the elderly who keep living on and on.

Much as I loathe the pair of them, it's notable that Stanley and Boris Johnson have tried to talk about overpopulation as subtly as they could. Stanley wrote in the Telegraph in about 2008 "I cannot understand why nobody is worried about overpopulation". This has long been forgotten, but I've seen it quoted occasionally (and on a sticker on a bus stop, linked to the vaccines - not my thinking!)

And Boris was crucified for saying "I would rather let the bodies pile high than have another lockdown"; he saw it as a convenient way of culling the population, especially the elderly, and "I think we should let it rip a bit". But it was politically unacceptable to say these things, because the narrative was "save lives at all costs".

And Prince Philip said in 1988 "if I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to do something about overpopulation." Politicians and royals have a habit of letting slip their concerns about overpopulation, which they cannot talk about. If he had died a year earlier, i.e. just before the pandemic, I think his remark would have been quoted much, much more!

Reform have said they will use parliamentary sovereignty to change the law.

They will apply this retrospectively.

Quite apart from any other argument at all, this is fascist.

The same as when we were in the EU then!

🙄

Whatever. If it makes you feel better to post insults. Don’t you have your own issues in France?

Parliamentary Sovereignty is how any government changes the law. Are you saying all UK governments are and have been fascist?

Not at all! We had a number of data sharing schemes and broader cooperation that made it x100 easier to address cross-border problems. Now it's much more complicated. But Nige in his infinite wisdom and experience as MEP would have known that and explained it to his voters in great detail I presume.

They’ve changed tack and are now arriving, undocumented, on boats, and claiming asylum.

For some reason, successive governments seem paralysed in responding to this.

Retrospectively

You need to say more on this. Parliament oversees / changes laws, that’s their job.

People who think it's clever to vote for more Farage are dimwits. They deserve to be insulted.

You like the way the Labour government retrospectively changed the LGBT laws. How very fascist of them.

No they didn't.

This means, reform have said, openly, that if they want to, they can make anyone calling themselves bumblebee72 illegal from tomorrow morning.

Not only that, but they can rule that anyone who has ever called themselves bumblebee72 has always been illegal and they'll ban anyone who has ever called themselves that.

Do you really want to vote for a party that has openly said they will do that?

It is not scaremongering. They have told you they will have the power to do this and they will use it.