To feel sorry for my friend's daughter?

[Feelingsorryforher]

My friend has been through an incredibly difficult decade. I won't give details because it isn't my place to share her story, but it has been very tough. I have done my best to support in different ways throughout, both emotionally and practically. My friend herself has been amazing...strong, positive and resilient in the face of some tremendous challenges. I really admire her.

Recently, she has made a decision to cut her young adult daughter out of her life. The daughter is toxic in many ways, and her behaviour has been truly dreadful, causing my friend a huge amount of difficulty and stress. Again, I'm not going to provide details because it isn't my story to tell, but suffice to say that I totally understand my friend's decision and I respect that she has to do what she feels she needs to do to preserve her own sanity and protect her younger dc, having previously turned her life upside down in order to try and support the older daughter. I have not questioned my friend's decision or expressed any doubts about it to her.

But actually, I have been struggling with her decision, because I find myself feeling very sorry for the daughter who is now desperately trying to mend the relationship. The pity that I feel is despite the fact that I still feel incredibly angry with the daughter for the way that she has treated her mum. I just can't imagine ever cutting off my dc in a million years. Then again, my dc wouldn't ever behave in the way that my friend's daughter has behaved, so it's a very different relationship.

My friend will not engage with the daughter's attempts to fix things, and I totally understand why. The daughter has a history of being manipulative, and this may just be more of the same. But at the same time, the daughter herself is extremely vulnerable and very messed up, and I can't help not feel sorry for the fact that she has effectively cut off the only solid source of support that she had.

The daughter has now contacted me directly to ask her to intervene with her mum. I will tell her that I definitely can't do this, but I'm wondering if I should offer to at least meet with her myself as she is in a very bad place and I'm worried about her - she has a history of self harm. Should I ask my friend if she is OK with me offering to meet with her daughter, or would it be better off just telling the daughter that I can't get involved? I don't think I would want to have contact with the daughter without sharing this with my friend, as that would feel disloyal.

I have known this young woman since she was a baby, and I had a lot of contact with her when she was growing up. I am under no illusions about how toxic she can be, but I also recognise that she has been through some very tough times herself. WWYD in this situation?

YABU - tell the daughter that you can't get involved and ask her not to contact you again
YANBU - ask your friend if she would mind you offering to meet with the daughter to check on her wellbeing

I understand that. I would be devastated if the worst happened. Having said that, I don't know whether I can actually help the dd. I think she needs professional help, and I am not in a position to provide that.

It's a few months can't remember exactly how long tbh.

You are now being manipulated by the daughter, and if you get involved your life might be badly affected - beware! She knowingly put her sibling at risk of harm because she was angry with her mum. At some point she might be angry with you, and perhaps will use someone else to get her own back. Support your friend wholeheartedly whatever she decides to do. This won't have been an easy decision, and the fact that the daughter is using you for her own ends is a huge red flag.

Having that poll at the end of your text doesn't make it okay to post this here. Still irrelevant

That's a hard question to answer. I think my friend would be heartbroken if something happened to her daughter, but I think she has also had to come to terms with the fact that she can't control her daughter's actions. Plus she has younger dc to consider.

She did offer to pay for private professional help previously but the daughter wasn't ready to take it up at the time.

I’m sure your friend had many many reasons as to why she cut her off and I can’t believe it was an easy decision. My sil is an evil person and my mil really struggled to cut her off and unfortunately she never did which caused a lot of pain for everyone.

Obviously I don’t know your circumstances but your suggestion is probably the best idea but don’t be surprised if she tells you to not get involved.

Even in this situation… that’s where boundaries would be called for.

A few months really doesn't feel like enough time for her to have changed her ways. Merely enough time for her to realise that she is missing out on the support she used to get (especially if it was financial).

Your friend hasn't come to this decision lightly. And her daughter will need to be able to prove she has changed for the better to be forgiven. I suspect when she realises her mum isn't coming back to her via you, she will start using you as the substitute. Only you know what that would mean. Asking for money? Turning up needing somewhere to stay?

I suspect you will end up regretting your decision if you choose to get involved. And will make it less likely that the daughter actually makes the changes in her life that she needs to.

From some of what you have posted your friend is as manipulative as you say the DD is.

Are you sure that she is not playing you as well?

You are in a position to tell her she is loved regardless of what is happening with her family, that she is cared for, and although her mother might not be in a position to support her currently other people can.

You can signpost her to counselling services. Perhaps for an assessment? If your friend agrees, you can support her dd to start somewhere by visiting the GP.

Your friend choose to have a baby with a man that has deeply harmed his own child by the sounds of it - directly or indirectly. Your friend has some responsibility here. So although her parenting was better, sadly it sounds like this young adult is really struggling and has been for some time with the fall out.

You also have to live with yourself op. Whilst no one can be sure how desperate the dd is likely to feel, some gentle non judgemental support is what I would be offering. Hopefully with your friend’s blessing.

You will need to be very strong around not advocating or passing messages on. Listen but never give an opinion. Offer only as much as you can manage. You may be all she has op, which is why this is a serious decision.

Stay out of it. Your friend has made her decision for a reason. Either you want to stay her friend, in which case just stay the hell out of it, or your happy to lose her as a friend and become the daughters next target to manipulate.

Perhaps be sympathetic but keep out of the situation.

Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom before they can make a positive change.
It’s awful to see them reach that place, but they must go through it to come out the other side and learn from their actions.

If she doesn’t feel regret, I don’t think you should help her. They day she tells you (without prompting) how very remorseful she is and how she wishes she could find a way to make it up to her mother, is the day you know she has changed. Only at that point do I think you should help.

You could do as Pp suggested and tell her to come back in a year.

Maybe the difference is the question of whether the parenting or traumatic childhood experiences has caused or contributed to the issues. I don’t know if that’s the case here but it could be.

I know people who have cut off parents and in all cases there was trauma, abuse or some unforgivable behaviour.

I also have some experience of parents cutting off children. In one case it’s because they are gay and the parent is a bigot and in another, I feel they have abandoned their child despite there being significant harm caused to that child. Not directly by the parent but also not helped by them either.

There is a company called Smile Mediation who may be able to help.

Just to be clear - the father being shit is the mother's fault?

Why must we always blame the women??

I don't think so.

No one can tell you what you should do, but I’ll tell you a bit about my situation. I am NC with my mum. It’s my choice to be NC, but it was made only after years and years of trying to mend the relationship and my mum running away because she couldn’t face the issues in her life. I finally had to throw my hands up, because it was destroying me (self-harm, alcoholism, all only after the relationship broke down).

Two things I would say: the story you have heard about the daughter probably isn’t entirely true. If you asked (some of) my mum’s friends why we are NC, they would tell you a very different story (Dh and I stole money from her) than what really happened (sexual abuse, my own and trying to facilitate the abuse of my children). Now it very well could be that the daughter does have serious mental health and addiction issues. But most young people don’t end up struggling like that when they’ve come from healthy loving families. Things can look very different from the outside than they really are on the inside.

That said, it may be a kind thing to do to keep a door open to her daughter. Some of my mum’s lifelong friends became an absolute buoy in the storm for me when it was all happening. One in particular has become like a second mum to me. People were shocked to learn the truth, but I think it made a lot of my mum’s ’struggles’ suddenly make sense. I’ve received some life changing support from some of these incredible women and I am very grateful.

Sounds like the dd is manipulative and harmful.
What did she do to her sibling? Was it accidental or intentional? @Feelingsorryforher

I am NC with my DM but I know my DM tells all her friends I’m the toxic troublesome one. My DM was extremely emotionally abusive when I was growing up, and this continued in many different forms throughout adulthood, but she hid/ hides it well. I wouldn’t be so swift to assume your friend is innocent in this. But having said that I would not get involved.

She may change her mind somewhere down the line, but if this is all quite fresh at the moment I'd definitely stay out of it. Perhaps some time on her own is what the daughter needs

I wouldn’t get involved. As much as you’ve been around, the real shit happens when everyone’s gone home. Just stay a supportive friend or it will backfire on you.

I would send a kind message letting her know you wish her well, have hope they will work things out and that you’ll pass on that she messaged but can’t get involved further than that.

If you want to keep your friendship, respect your friend's wishes.

I think the daughter is being manipulative by trying to involve you in what should be strictly between she and her mother. You're her mom's friend and she knows you have influence with her and she's trying to get you to take her side. That would definitely tip me to the side of I wish you well but I'm not getting involved.

You are lucky not to know the pain such a decision causes as well as traumatic events that requires such a move. When boundaries are trampled over what is left?.

This