To feel sorry for my friend's daughter?

[Feelingsorryforher]

My friend has been through an incredibly difficult decade. I won't give details because it isn't my place to share her story, but it has been very tough. I have done my best to support in different ways throughout, both emotionally and practically. My friend herself has been amazing...strong, positive and resilient in the face of some tremendous challenges. I really admire her.

Recently, she has made a decision to cut her young adult daughter out of her life. The daughter is toxic in many ways, and her behaviour has been truly dreadful, causing my friend a huge amount of difficulty and stress. Again, I'm not going to provide details because it isn't my story to tell, but suffice to say that I totally understand my friend's decision and I respect that she has to do what she feels she needs to do to preserve her own sanity and protect her younger dc, having previously turned her life upside down in order to try and support the older daughter. I have not questioned my friend's decision or expressed any doubts about it to her.

But actually, I have been struggling with her decision, because I find myself feeling very sorry for the daughter who is now desperately trying to mend the relationship. The pity that I feel is despite the fact that I still feel incredibly angry with the daughter for the way that she has treated her mum. I just can't imagine ever cutting off my dc in a million years. Then again, my dc wouldn't ever behave in the way that my friend's daughter has behaved, so it's a very different relationship.

My friend will not engage with the daughter's attempts to fix things, and I totally understand why. The daughter has a history of being manipulative, and this may just be more of the same. But at the same time, the daughter herself is extremely vulnerable and very messed up, and I can't help not feel sorry for the fact that she has effectively cut off the only solid source of support that she had.

The daughter has now contacted me directly to ask her to intervene with her mum. I will tell her that I definitely can't do this, but I'm wondering if I should offer to at least meet with her myself as she is in a very bad place and I'm worried about her - she has a history of self harm. Should I ask my friend if she is OK with me offering to meet with her daughter, or would it be better off just telling the daughter that I can't get involved? I don't think I would want to have contact with the daughter without sharing this with my friend, as that would feel disloyal.

I have known this young woman since she was a baby, and I had a lot of contact with her when she was growing up. I am under no illusions about how toxic she can be, but I also recognise that she has been through some very tough times herself. WWYD in this situation?

YABU - tell the daughter that you can't get involved and ask her not to contact you again
YANBU - ask your friend if she would mind you offering to meet with the daughter to check on her wellbeing

It’s hard to say without the details. But I wonder how your friend would feel if she knew you were meeting her DD?

It would also depend for me on why she behaves the way she does? Could this be a result of poor parenting?

My friend has been an incredible parent imo - not perfect, of course - who is?! - but she has been incredibly wise, patient and dedicated. Her ex-H has been a terrible parent, however.

I wouldn't meet with the dd without first getting the OK from my friend.

F

Why is your friend wanting to go no contact with her, when her daughter is finally making progress? That seems like an odd thing to do

If the daughter were to call on you unexpectedly; would you let her in?

You aren't being unreasonable in either case. It sounds like you really want to help this girl and I am sure your friend would appreciate you looking out for her daughter even though she herself has gone no contact. Talking to your friend about it seems to be the only logical option.

It's a long story and one that I can't share here. I think my friend is still very shocked and hurt by something that her daughter did. She also believes that the daughter is just being manipulative now and that she hasn't really learned anything.

I don't think I could turn the daughter away if she suddenly appeared on my doorstep.

If you respect your friend and wish to preserve your friendship with her, stay well out of it. It is unfair (and manipulative) of your friend’s daughter to have involved you. She needs to use her own support network, NOT her mother’s.

typo

Your friend cut off her young adult child who is vulnerable and self harms. She is ‘toxic’ but we don’t know how or why. Has she ever physically hurt anyone?

What do you think the daughter’s side of all of this is?

My instinct would be to help the daughter in any way I could. I would be interested in her version of things.

Why would your friend have any problem with you meeting her daughter? Are you afraid of her reaction if she knew? That she’d be angry with you if she knew you had met with her daughter?

I just can't imagine ever cutting off my dc in a million years.

With respect, whilst you have been on the sidelines throughout you haven't actually had the lived experience your friend has.

If you cannot imagine a scenario bad enough to make the choice she has imagine how bad her experiences with her DD must have been to bring her to that decision.

Quite possibly her heart, her mind and her physical energy have been put through the ringer by her DD. You have said yourself that DD is manipulative etc etc. You may know a lot but not everything.

Respect your friend's decision. Stay out of it.

I think that if I was very close to the friend and, like you, was struggling to get to grips with her decision to cut her DD off completely, then I would have that honest conversation.

The DD is asking you to mediate, you also don’t think your friend is being completely reasonable. Therefore I think you should comply with the DD’s request. But it will be a difficult and delicate conversation, for sure.

I think it is normal to feel sad for both your friend and her dd. I would let friend know dd has been in touch and ask her if she would like you to check in or discourage further contact. It sounds like your friend is a good mum so I would do whatever she needed.

My friend’s mother cut her and her brother out of her life. Her mum left her dad and started a new relationship in a few weeks and her mum felt my friend and her brother took their dad’s side. They did to an extent and were upset at how she went about things. So she cut them both off. My friend was so upset and tried to sort things out with her mum but her mum wasn’t having any of it. Then my friend’s grandmother died (her mother’s mum). Her mum then tried to make amends with my friend and her brother but by that stage it was too late for them and they were too hurt by everything so they haven’t spoken to their mother in years.

I think I would advise your friend to think very carefully about cutting her own child out of her life. She may be upset about something she did now but might be ready to forgive her some day. She may not find it as easy as just getting back in touch and starting afresh with her daughter if her daughter decides she’s too hurt and is no longer interested in having a relationship with her.

i personally don’t know how people can cut their own children off except in extreme cases. How would she feel if something happened to her daughter?

I would let your friend know that her daughter has contacted you, best to keep everything out in the open. Just be careful that you don't become too embroiled with her just in case it becomes awkward/difficult and you end up in the same place as your friend.

I actually can’t imagine the situation in which it would be necessary to go no contact with your own child. Boundaries for sure but no contact?

I don't think she really has her own support network tbh. That might be her own fault, but I am nonetheless concerned.

I’d chat to your friend and tell her exactly what you’ve said here. Parenting, while unconditional, does have limits. IMO, those limits should be very very high and parents should only cut their kids off in extreme circumstances. Obviously this could be one of those cases, I don’t know, but while not trying to get involved and stuck between them, I’d at least express…gently…to your friend how you feel.

I guess it depends on how clean she’s washed her hands of her daughter as to how she responds. Maybe she just needs a break and you can support or at least keep an eye on her daughter in the meantime?

I think that whatever you think you know, is not the whole picture. The daughter is using you because her mum has finally drawn a line.

If you involve yourself I’d expect that you’ll be next to be cut off.

Physical and emotional abuse would be the only reason I can think of. Everything else is unconditional and you are always the parent/adult despite how old your children are. That’s just my take though.

Recently, she has made a decision to cut her young adult daughter out of her life.

For how long? Has the friend decided she will never speak to her daughter again?

What about at family funerals or celebrations? Will she avoid attending anything her daughter might be at, or leave if she encounters her daughter unexpectedly at an event? Does she intend to blank her daughter if she passes her in the street?

@Feelingsorryforher sorry but the daughter is now reaping the consequences of her horrendous actions towards her mother when her mother was at a low ebb!! her mother is now doing the only thing she can do to protect her own mental and possible physical health. has the daughter shown any real remorse towards her mother at all?? I feel that at the moment your loyalty should be to your friend.

I'm not afraid of my friend's reaction at all, I just don't want to make things harder for her in any way and I don't want to wade in where it is inappropriate for me to do so.

I can guess at the daughter's side of things. Nothing that she could say would take away from what she did. She has not, to my knowledge, physically harmed anyone, but she did knowingly put her sibling at risk of harm because she was angry with her mum. This is what led to my friend cutting her off.

It is manipulate of the young girl to reach out to you instead of her own friends/support.
Whilst I’m sure your friend would appreciate you looking out for her child, no doubt getting involved with this girl will be the end of the friendship between the two adults as that seems like the girl’s typical behaviour.
Do you want to keep your friend or her daughter in your life?

You're right. I cannot possibly know everything that has been said and done, and I also cannot feel what my friend feels. I am absolutely not judging her decision, which I understand. But I'm still concerned about the wellbeing of her daughter and I feel sorry for her having made the mess that she has made for herself.

If I was your friend I'd actually really appreciate knowing that someone I trust is supporting my DD when I can't. It sounds like your friend is doing this because she needs to rather than not caring about her DD, so as long as you keep it separate from your friendship, as in don't try guilt tripping friend into seeing her DD, I think most parents would really appreciate it.

My friend, without question. I do not want to put the friendship at risk.