I have gone NC with PIL and feel great. DP is sad.

[amispeakingintongues]

NC with them for last 7 months, and have felt huge relief. I don’t let them in my house anymore, at least while I am here. Kids are welcome to see them whenever but I don’t trust PIL to look after them unattended because;

FIL shouted at me/ us in his house over the fact I gently reminded my own children (ages 1 and 3) to be careful of the boiling hot cup of tea stupidly placed by MIL on a side table right behind them. He heard me say this, then spat out “No what (dc) needs to do is go next door to get his snack)”. I was taken aback by this blatant undermining but ignored it as he’d already been rude to me over something else and I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of a response. 30 secs later, my partner walked in, saw the hot tea. Without a thought, he moved it immediately and the unhinged outburst from FIL went something like “NO DON’T MOVE MY TEA. YOU DON’T CHANGE EVERYTHING YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE KIDS THEY MUST BE TAUGHT TO AVOID THINGS” (again, kids are 1 and 3) to which I managed to reply, whilst stunned “They are my children and they are so little, if I see something dangerous I will protect them” - and he replied “DON’T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE CHILDREN WHEN I’VE HAD X5/6/7” (he’s estranged from half his kids all with different mothers so)
… afterwards I just found the car keys and politely asked MIL (who heard all of this and didn’t say a thing) to let me out the house. I sat in the car and burst into flames (and tears). Never seen them since.

Some context: They felt (their own words) that I wasn’t good enough for their DS when we met over 10 years ago. Since then their opinion according to my DP has changed, and they apparently think i’m a good mum to their grandkids etc but never once have they said anything positive about me to my face about my character or anything that made me feel genuinely liked and respected, rather than tolerated. Even though I have bent over backwards in my people pleasing ways cooking, hosting, long heart to hearts with MIL, taking her out on lunches, taking the kids to see them etc, there has always been an undercurrent of disdain towards me. Which has worn me down in more ways than i can explain in one post.

Anyway. My DP is getting pressure from them to nip this all in the bud whilst maintaining they absolutely will not apologise to me. And that somehow, I am in the wrong. DP disagrees with them but that doesn’t change much because they are withholding attention/love/affection which is upsetting him. This master manipulation is no surprise but my DP is not well attuned for seeing this for what it is. DP wants me to put it all behind me for his sake, just so they can come to the house. I don’t want to not uphold my new found boundary but also don’t want DP feeling upset. I know i’m not being petty, just feeling like I don’t know what’s best in the long run.

If that's what you want to call it.

There doesn't have to be a winner and a loser.

If someone doesn't move their cup of tea out of the way of your children, you can move your children out of the way of the cup of tea and move on.

If you don't like spending time with your in laws, you can leave your husband to entertain them while you go to Sainsbury's or out for lunch with a friend.

There are so many ways of dealing with this which would be so much more proportionate than going no contact and saying you won't let your in laws into your house unless they apologise. Demanding an apology from someone who doesn't agree that they have done something wrong is always counterproductive. And using your children as a bargaining chip to get one over on your parents in law is despicable.

I think it's a bit of a non-specific drip feed to say, "there have been ten years of incidents, none of which I am going to tell you about" in response to people saying, "OK yes, you shouldn't put a hot cup of tea next to small children, but you can deal with this without going no contact." It makes me think that the OP is making a mountain out of a molehill because she thrives on the drama and wants to win.

That and the thread title, "I feel great but my partner is sad." Well yes, of course he's sad because they're his parents and he loves them.

Like I said, I've seen this sort of scenario play out in my husband's family and just cannot encourage people to go no contact or withhold access to their children unless their parents in law apologise and admit that they were completely wrong. And it makes me wonder about what sort of relationships these posters have with their own families and in laws.

Real life isn't as black and white as, "Go no contact unless they apologise." Human relationships don't work like that. In real life taking this kind of approach causes huge amounts of completely unnecessary damage.

OP, you married a weak damaged man from really low class abusive people.
He doesn't know any better.

Yanbu to no longer associate with them.
Your children do not need low class toxic grandparents.

Its a MN thing that grandparents must have access no matter how abusive or toxic.

My friend tolerated her overbearing father for years to be polite.
Her mother listened while he made PA aggressive remarks.

One day when leaving her 6 year old daughter told her she feels sad when she sees mummys face when Grandad talks.

That was it. She didn't understand what was being said, but she was absorbing the emotion.
It was very triggering for my friend who had 35 years of his nasty digs.

She rang her parents and told them what had been said and that she needed lots of space.
They lived 30 minutes away and she had done all the visiting.

She took a complete break for a full year.
She told the children grandad made her sad so they wouldn't be visiting. They accepted it.

A full year later they agreed to pop in briefly as they were passing.
Her father couldn't help himself, had to make a dig at her husband.
She immediately gathered the children up, wouldn't discuss anything, was just gone.

She rang the following day to say she was done and there would be no more visiting.
She kept to her word.

Through therapy she realised her father was a raging narcissist and her mother enabled him.
She felt no loss, just relief at her decision.
Her children very very rarely asked and then forgot about them.

Your FIL sounds like scum.
Protect your children from scum.
Even if it costs you your marriage.
Marrying into an awful family like that is such a burden.
Be clear to your husband you will protect your children from his awful parents.
You owe them nothing.

This...

They're idiots... It's not just they'd happy exposing their tiny grandchildren to stupid risk... Scalds are grim...

It's that the kids will think their behaviour is normal and disrespecting their mum so normal...

The daft father in law already has a crap history parenting his own kids...

Like hell would he have more than minimal contact with my small kids.

This and it is always the person they’re being unkind to that has to be the bigger person.

But it's also quite immature not to apologise when you've upset someone, no?

I was always so confused as a child why we visited my mum's parents when she told us all sorts of horrible things about them all the time because they severely neglected her growing up.

So agree. My in laws are so lovely and great with my children.
But I just don't get those that persevered when things are toxic.

The very first time my friends daughters ex nurse MIL tried to tell her what to do with her baby, and take the baby from her, she stood up and asked her was she out of her mind?
She said to her, are you one of those batshit MIL's that think they can behave however they want?
She took baby and bag, car keys and left, she left her husband too. She was gone. She drove to her mother directly and turned her phone off.

Her husband followed her about an hour later after having an almighty row with his mother.
She had also over stepped with the wedding, but they had let things go for the peace, but the baby was a whole different thing.

They didn't see them for months. She just refused to risk having her MIL around her, spoiling the new born stage.
Its all good now, 2 years later.
Everyone knows where they stand.

I swear if more people stood up the first time they were treated poorly, they would save years of stress.

OP has tolerated this for 10 years.
Madness.
His own children avoid him.

I can’t believe that you’ve seriously cut your in laws out of your life for something like this!

Be with the kids so they are not at risk.

Have firm boundaries and tell DP that he will stick to them with PIL or tell PIL to leave/leave with the kids.

The child's father did exactly that (move the tea) - and got shouted at for daring to do so.

How are they seeing your husband and kids currently, does your husband take them to his parents house without you?

Tis won’t work. The DP will bow down to the ILs every time.

Then even if the OP holds firm, DP will be “sad” (aka annoyed he has to face facts) and there will be a row.

Absolutely stand your ground. My DH owns our house but it’s my home and no fucking way is anyone coming into my safe place against my wishes, if DH dosnt agree we will be divorcing!

You need to sit DH down calmly and tell him you know it’s difficult for him but after 10 years of their nastiness you are no longer dealing with them, he needs to understand that if they are punishing him for your choices there is something fundamentally wrong. Don’t let it turn into an argument, if it dose drop it and come back to it when he’s calm.

Do you have access to his phone? Maybe sneak on there and set his algorithms to videos on abusive toxic parents.

The only thing I’d be worried about is letting your children see them without you, they are so young and your allowing them to be put in dangerous and abusive situations. I don’t know how you can do this without DHs support but they would have no contact with my children. For reference I’m Nc with my narc mother and 1 sibling, my children have had no contact with them since I went NC and never will. The difference is I had DHs support.

So you understand it’s hard for children of abusive parents to cut contact, even when they know they need to, that emotional and guilt cord is very very hard to sever, even if your DH fully supports you it can take years for him to finally get to the point of not caring. I’ve been NC for 7 years and even though I know I’ve done the right thing for me and my children I still have moments I struggle.

Odd, isn't it? And even if that was the correct age profile, older women have generally had years of experience of their own relationships with in-laws to navigate.

Jesus effing Christ.

SIL is that you?

Out of sheer curiosity, do you think narcissistic sociopaths only post on AIBU and never on Relationships? I realise that comes over a bit sarky but honestly, it's not like anyone on AIBU is suspect and everyone o Relationships is genuine! :)

A lot of the posts on here make me wonder if they've ever seen a baby with severe burns. It's really not pretty. The agony of parents and child is terrible.

I'm sure they post in both, but in my experience the advice tends to be more nuanced in relationships. In AIBU people seem to treat it like a game show, should she LTB/go NC, hands on your buzzers, all vote now, the person with the fewest votes doesn't get to see their grandchildren again. People tend to forget that these are real people's lives we are discussing, and that they don't have the full picture when they give their verdict. AIBU is also more adversarial by nature. If everyone votes YANBU you win and if everyone votes YABU you lose, so you'd better tell the story that paints you in the best light.

I think the cup of tea is a red herring. Of course it's fine to tell someone, "Either you move your cup of tea or I move my child." But if every parent in 2025 went no contact with their parents or in laws every time they did something unsafe and didn't react well to being told off, we might as well remove the word "grandparents" from the dictionary. That's not what this thread is really about. The cup of boiling hot tea is merely the device the OP has chosen to employ to guarantee the "YANBU" response.

In AIBU people seem to treat it like a game show, should she LTB/go NC, hands on your buzzers, all vote now, the person with the fewest votes doesn't get to see their grandchildren again.

Fair point, AIBU is a bearpit and Mumsnet regulate it only very lightly. Having said that many people here get a real buzz out of deliberately misinterpreting what an OP has said. In this situation I don't think the cup of tea is a red herring - seriously, severe burns can last life-long and a 1 year old is not safe near a cup. I knew a baby who'd pulled over a cup and three years later the treatment was still ongoing - she's scarred for life. It's not a small chance of something happening, when it's a 1yo and a very hot cup of tea.

But from what the OP has said this is only the tip of the iceberg, if you read her posts. She's talking about the PiLs lying, insulting her, and the way her FiL spoke to her (assuming she's relaying the situation accurately, and that is all we can go on here) is absolutely not acceptable, especially when we're talking a serious safety issue. She's also said her older child hasn't spoken about Grandfather at all since this happened, with the implication that the child is not comfortable or at ease with the grandparent.

Yeah but she drip fed that stuff after a lot of people said, "Yes OK fair enough about the cup of tea, but it's not a reason to go no contact."

And it's exactly the same kind of stuff my SIL would say, which in her case would be absolutely untrue.

Yes, we only ever hear one side of the story (well except once, when someone posted that their sister was awful for keeping her distance from the family, and the sister herself finally posted (if all is as it seemed)).

But this has always been the way - there are dreadful PiLs, and there are dreadful children in laws too. Unpleasant people often don't change; unpleasant children-in-law can grow up to be unpleasant PiLs too. Though another poster make the point well that some parents struggle to let go of directing their childrens' lives and that's true (not in my case, but it is a thing).

All we can do is work off what we have been told and this specific incident is fairly detailed, and there seems to be a backstory.

We can agree to differ though.

Like I said, I think it is irresponsible to encourage a stranger on the internet to carry on a feud with her parents in law based on nothing more than this thread.

Real life is always more complex.

If one day your son married a difficult woman who decided that you could only see your grandchildren if you did exactly what she wanted all the time, you'd hope that if she posted on here for validation she wouldn't get 400 complete strangers saying, "You go girl!" and cheerleading her decision to cut you out of their lives based on nothing more than a one sided telling of a story, wouldn't you?

What about this post makes you think the OP is difficult and not her father in law?

The unpleasant thread title, the insistence on an apology and the overuse of the word "boundary", among other things. All red flags to me.

Maybe the FIL is difficult as well. Maybe I'm reading the OP all wrong and projecting my own negative experiences with my SIL onto her. Who knows? None of us do, that's the point.

I'm just quite sure that my SIL's version of her story would sound a lot like this.

Thanks for sharing your experience. And good point you make about the manipulation and emotional abuse; and how this impact custody terms if we were to separate/divorce… also, I too have a SIL who lives with the PILs (has never left home). The first few years she ignored me completely but since my dc were born she is essentially a younger version of my MIL. Which is fun.

Well, that was sobering. It has got me thinking, so thanks. We are not actually married yet, but engaged. Planning a wedding with this backdrop has been far from romantic. In fact the tea cup incident was actually the same day we viewed a wedding venue. Make of that what you will.

Took this route myself with one of my own parents and I totally agree with you - if someone disrespects me they don’t get access to my children. End of. I don’t care what anyone says, I’m their mother and if you dislike me so much I don’t trust you to look after them or be a positive in their lives.

I’ve never been happier, less stressed and felt more confident to truly be myself in my life. Kids don’t care whatsoever that they don’t see said parent/grandparent.

Im sure we will get flamed for this 😂