I have gone NC with PIL and feel great. DP is sad.

[amispeakingintongues]

NC with them for last 7 months, and have felt huge relief. I don’t let them in my house anymore, at least while I am here. Kids are welcome to see them whenever but I don’t trust PIL to look after them unattended because;

FIL shouted at me/ us in his house over the fact I gently reminded my own children (ages 1 and 3) to be careful of the boiling hot cup of tea stupidly placed by MIL on a side table right behind them. He heard me say this, then spat out “No what (dc) needs to do is go next door to get his snack)”. I was taken aback by this blatant undermining but ignored it as he’d already been rude to me over something else and I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of a response. 30 secs later, my partner walked in, saw the hot tea. Without a thought, he moved it immediately and the unhinged outburst from FIL went something like “NO DON’T MOVE MY TEA. YOU DON’T CHANGE EVERYTHING YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE KIDS THEY MUST BE TAUGHT TO AVOID THINGS” (again, kids are 1 and 3) to which I managed to reply, whilst stunned “They are my children and they are so little, if I see something dangerous I will protect them” - and he replied “DON’T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE CHILDREN WHEN I’VE HAD X5/6/7” (he’s estranged from half his kids all with different mothers so)
… afterwards I just found the car keys and politely asked MIL (who heard all of this and didn’t say a thing) to let me out the house. I sat in the car and burst into flames (and tears). Never seen them since.

Some context: They felt (their own words) that I wasn’t good enough for their DS when we met over 10 years ago. Since then their opinion according to my DP has changed, and they apparently think i’m a good mum to their grandkids etc but never once have they said anything positive about me to my face about my character or anything that made me feel genuinely liked and respected, rather than tolerated. Even though I have bent over backwards in my people pleasing ways cooking, hosting, long heart to hearts with MIL, taking her out on lunches, taking the kids to see them etc, there has always been an undercurrent of disdain towards me. Which has worn me down in more ways than i can explain in one post.

Anyway. My DP is getting pressure from them to nip this all in the bud whilst maintaining they absolutely will not apologise to me. And that somehow, I am in the wrong. DP disagrees with them but that doesn’t change much because they are withholding attention/love/affection which is upsetting him. This master manipulation is no surprise but my DP is not well attuned for seeing this for what it is. DP wants me to put it all behind me for his sake, just so they can come to the house. I don’t want to not uphold my new found boundary but also don’t want DP feeling upset. I know i’m not being petty, just feeling like I don’t know what’s best in the long run.

@amispeakingintongues you will get all sorts of advice on this but here is my experience. My father in law is really really not a good man, physically abusive towards MIL, coercive control etc but the most of his worst behaviour had moderated by the time I met them.

I brought my kids around him and now as adults they tell me that they absolutely hated being in his presence. The feeling of control and aggression that they picked up around him was ever present even though he never did any of his past behaviour with them. But like you my DH really wanted to foster relationships between his family so who do you support in these situations. If I had my time back it would have been our children. Kids are experts at reading mood and feelings, they will have no words but they will understand on an emotional level that your father in law is a problem and he is a big one.

Thanks for this. I’m sorry to hear you know this dilemma all too well. I suspect my kids will / do feel the same, my oldest now 4 rarely mentioned him at all before all the drama happened and hasn’t said his name since so don’t feel he’s ever been a positive influence. He’s definitely used harsh words to my son before so unless he has a personality transplant i do expect more of the same. I think even if i let them back in my house he wouldn’t visit unless its a special occasion anyway, it’s more the principle of being barred that jars them.

Families disagree, clash , have differences of opinion, that's just family life. In the scheme of things it is such a small thing to ruin your partners and children's relationship with them.

I would genuinely make an effort. Just as soon as they both apologise for what happened & committed to being more respectful.

Forced apologies and promises as a condition, are meaningless and it's controlling to demand them. You're more likely to get a sincere apology spontaneously, when the relationship is picked up.

@Namechange2700000 - but in this case, it sounds as if the in-laws are the assholes, without question.

And your point about ‘PILs must say nothing but the wives and husbands can say what they like’ - I think it’s more often the case that parents in law are used to being the ‘authority figure’ within the family and when their own child gets married and creates their own family, it upsets the status quo.

Absolutely this.

Of course it sounds that way. The OP isn't going to tell the story from the perspective that makes her sound like the arsehole, is she?

And for all these people saying ‘oh, it’s just not worth drama etc’ why shouldn’t that apply to the father in law? Whatever he privately thought about the tea, why not just say ‘whoops, of course’ and move it? That way, there wouldn’t be ANY drama at all!

For the sake of your husband I’d rather probably suck it up and allow him to invite them to your house once a month or so. You are then in your space and can get away when you want. I’d certainly not be cooking etc for them but would take part in a meal made by hubby.

Then he can also visit them with the children but you don’t need to go there.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom - well yeah, but anyone posting on MN is going to post from their perspective aren’t they? 😂

I totally agree

You need your DP on side and it’s hard for him because this is how they’ve always been so he takes the dynamic for granted.

If you can bear it, play a slightly longer game. Bend your boundaries - they can come but you’re not going to skivvy for them. You will stay there to make sure kids are safe. Make sure any hard work related to the visit is on DP (hoovering, making cups of tea, cooking, hosting) and then when they’re there make sure you pull them up on anything unsafe/unkind they do or say to the kids. Every time. Don’t worry about creating an atmosphere - your kids should be safe and they should see you sticking up for them. If PIL can’t/won’t change their behaviour your DP will start to find visits unbearable. That’s better (for you and DP) than him thinking you’ve “banned” them.

As I’ve said both in my original post and subsequently, this decision to go no NC was after 10 years and MULTIPLE instances of batshit outbursts, put downs, snide comments, judgments, overstepping boundaries, lying to my face, etc etc. I wish this was it, but it’s not.

Exactly. That's why I don't think AIBU is an appropriate place to encourage people to go no contact with their in laws or withhold access to their children until they get an apology for some minor incident.

Because everything might be just as the OP says.

Or you might be talking to a narcissistic sociopath like my SIL who has treated my PIL appallingly and is currently refusing to allow them to see their grandchildren unless they apologise to her and welcome her back into their home after she has destroyed their family, thrown their kindness back in their faces and repeatedly insulted and lied about them.

Knowing what I now do about how different the other side of the story can look, I would err on the side of advising the OP to encourage her husband and children to have a good relationship with her in laws even if she finds them difficult.

aka someone put down a boundary and he’s thrown his toys…which is exactly why, especially after 10 years, it’s never going to improve with them, they won’t SEE it, they won’t change and you’re so much better off NC.

If DP is sad, well, that’s life, mate. They’re his parents. And just because some people want to go on with a delusion doesn’t mean everyone else has to.

This! Why can’t people read the OP? The guy shouted at her, used the imperative and to the point the OP was in tears and it’s all “minor” and “a one off”.

We all know a man like the FIL. It’s not hard to build a bigger picture.

except i’ve never stopped them from seeing the kids. DP has taken them a few times to their house and on a day out since the tea fiasco. My question is about having them in my house.

I could “spin” an even better story than this but it is emotionally draining to go over the backstory of the last 10 years. Of course no one will know both sides here, I am asking you to assume I am telling the truth when I say I really, really have tried.

It's also your husband's house though, isn't it? Not just yours.

Why don't you go and do something else when they come round? Have lunch with a friend, do the food shop, something like that?

If you don't want them in your house and you don't want your children in their house then you are limiting their ability to see each other whether you see it that way or not.

You do you but with children so young you are potentially up for many years of this conflict and bad feeling. Ideally you and DP would talk together and agree that as parents it's your job to keep your children safe, including when they are at their GPs or when GPs are at your house. Accept that the GPs or maybe just FIL isn't going to be great at seeing what your children need or maybe that he's just over reactive to criticism - many people are. He shouldn't have shouted at you, and like many people, can't bring himself to apologise, but that doesn't mean you need to take up this strict boundary and upset your DP and his family.

Remember too that your children won't always be so young and vulnerable. Do you really want them to have a mother who can't be around their GPs? Children pick up on everything. I knew my dad disliked and only just about tolerated his parents long before I knew why.

If I were in someone else’s house with my children and the adult put a cup of tea down I’d make sure my DC didn’t go near it. I wouldn’t tell the adult to move it, I’d move my dc.
I’m not sure what your point was about treats next door? Stopping your DP from his parents coming over for this minor argument is a bit pathetic in all honesty. You all need to grow up!

I didn't always see eye to eye with my ILs and we did have a couple of heated exchanges.

I generally just avoided them if I could.

They did some stupid things at times - but then again, I probably didn't always see every danger either.

But my MIL doted on my DS, who is adopted and they were very close. I never stopped them seeing each other. She died a few years ago, and DS has a photo of him and her pinned on his bedroom wall. Interestingly, my BIL and SIL rarely visited, there was no relationship between their child (my nephew)and MIL. But after both ILs died my nephew (pretty much the same age as our son) overheard us reminiscing about things and wanted to know why he didn't know any of this stuff. He was and still is sad he didn't see them more often and get to know them. He does wish he had seen them more often and it did cause a bit of an argument between them at one point.

So do consider the long game.

And no, I am not a MIL or a granny and probably unlikely to be any time soon.

I really would give them another chance in a heartbeat if they only apologised. Would make my life so much easier. But they have been asked by DP to apologise at least twice and down right refused every time. This is what makes the situation so impossible. MIL has apparently spun this back around to her being annoyed at me for not calling her to confide after she listened to her own husband insult me in their own home. Mad. But not surprising at all. She must always be the injured party even when she so clearly isn’t.

She’s not the one screaming in front of tiny kids about not wanting to move a hot drink out of their way.

Some people really will look to blame the DIL for everything.

There is no way they’re going to apologise.

What you’re basically saying is they can behave as they like and OP needs to suck it up.

He shouldn't have shouted at you, and like many people, can't bring himself to apologise, but that doesn't mean you need to take up this strict boundary and upset your DP and his family.

Wow, that is some victim blaming. Zero sympathy for how much OP was upset.