Teacher asked who chose the pink bottle....

[Caszekey]

Ok, so it's more aibu to allow / encourage this behaviour.
Fairly identifiable so here goes.
5 year olds twin boys, both have long hair like their Dad which I put up for school. Ones favourite colour is pink. Both adore Frozen so wanted the dress up dresses (Kristoff is a minor character). Last WBD they dressed as Goldilocks and Red Riding Hood (bear, wolves are minor characters). School have jokingly passed comment previously about pink bobbles etc but today I was asked, incidentally, if I chose the pink bottles or them, do I pick costumes etc.
I don't know if she's curious or implying I'm doing something wrong but it's got me second guessing

The choices are child led and I reckon they'll age out of them but I don't want to pull the "boys don't do that" line when girls have so much fun.

So aibu to allow them to pick so freely ? We've not yet encountered a request for a dress for general living, just they like to be Princesses!

I tried. I got told no. It has to be Thier favourite book and that's their favourite person. I tried coaxing their older brother into a third bear or pig but it HAD to be those two characters.

I have 3 boys.

Putting on a dress and a sparkly tiara from the school dressing up box, is completely different to choosing to wear that sort of outfit to school on a non uniform day.

But I suspect the OP is either brand new to Mumsnet or just wanted to start a thread that's been done to death, having made up their mind that they're not being unreasonable.

Yes, one of my little boys was very much like this. Yes, he moved onto other things as he grew older. No, I didn't have an issue with it and he didn't have any issues at school as far as I know.

To the poster confused about how a forum like this could "let this slide" - a lot of nonsense is talked about gender critical beliefs so I'm genuinely keen to clear this up: I'm as 'gender critical' as they come and that means being very clear that you can't actually change your sex, and that your sex becomes relevant and important in contexts of safety, privacy, biological facts of life and dignity. But I don't entertain and have never entertained pointless, prescriptive sexism about what you can enjoy, wear and accomplish.

My only concern with my son at the time was that some bright spark would put the sexist idea in his head that his likes and dislikes might mean he is "really" a girl and introduce confusion and upset because they couldn't get past the idea of "girls things and boys things".

I’d wind it back - stop with the girly hair and pink accessories; you’re setting them up to be bullied and school is hard enough already. They can dress up at home.

I think op would have mentioned if her DS were getting picked on/ostracised by other children.

As it happens its an adult who seems to have an issue (whatever that may be) with it.

It was an adult that made a comment to one of my DS about his mainly pink Alzheimers Society scarf that he got from a charity run he did, and was so proud of it. He was in Y6. No other kid ever pointed it out as being weird, but he never wore it again because of that dickhead adult.

How disappointingly unsurprising.

Trust me, I'm SO ready for the Frozen obsession to pass.

Wonder if all these PPs being critical about this would equally have a problem with girls wearing blue or dressing up as male characters. It’s pathetic frankly. Sounds like the teacher holds potentially similar bigoted views and is “worried” about your parenting on some level. Fuck that, is this like a safeguarding check in? If not she’s so rude for asking!

as for the other kids picking on them, it really depends where the school is in my experience. We had to move a few times and there was an enormous difference between the inner city primary where there was all sorts and no one gave a shit, to the countryside primary with very provincial families with strict gender norms (my boy teased for wearing a cardigan when he arrived as it was apparently “girls” clothing) to the middle class town primary where again, strict rules in place. I loved being in a city the most where people are not so narrow minded

My youngest's favourite colour was always pink, until he got to about 7 or 8 when he wobbled, and now he'll say it's purple (but he will also tend to pick the pink option for hair bobbles/pencils/whatever if there's a choice)

He wasn't into dresses, but for him it was sparkly leggings - until he was about 9 when he switched to joggers and fluffy jumpers. Plus hair down to his waist

We've been lucky in that no-one's really commented (although I've caught the occasional 'look') - he's often assumed to be a girl by strangers though (which I find odd, I think he looks like a boy!).

I'd just answer directly TBH - just say it's more than your life is worth to try and force them to wear anything!

No one has a pink bobble and one a blue. Identical twins, different bobbles for ID. Two pink bottles this time as they break them all the time and pink was cheaper. Same colour to stop arguements

Very much sympathise. My DS absolutely loved pink when he started school. He was obsessed from around age two. I didn't encourage him either way. He had a choice of 'boy' toys and 'girl' toys, same as clothes. He mostly preferred cars and trains but wanted pink ones.
It wasn't just pink, but anything 'pretty' and sparkly that tends to be aimed at girls. I suspect he was also drawn to the messages that go out with it: so about being friendly and sweet and kind as opposed to 'roar dinosaur'.
I had talked to him about pink sometimes seen as a girl colour but everyone was different and liked different things so that was silly.
However he turned against pink very suddenly, not long after he started school. All his much loved pink stuff was suddenly very upsetting and he refused to tell me why. He was very insistent about getting rid of anything pink but was clearly miserable about it. I can only assume he was given a hard time for it.
I do wish schools would encourage 'a colour is a colour' and let the children express themselves without making assumptions about what that means.
Sometimes a young child just loves pink and sparkly things and it's not more complicated than that.

Being gender critical means we’re critical of the idea that gender stereotypes should be enforced, NOT that we’re critical of people who break gender stereotypes.
It also means that we don’t see breaking gender stereotypes as an indication that someone “isn’t really” a boy or a girl.

Hopefully the OP is saying to the boys “of course boys can wear pink, plenty of boys like pink” instead of “of course you can wear girly things, nothing wrong with being girly”. The first one breaks stereotypes, the second enforces them to a large degree.

My son loves pink.

I think as parents it is also our responsibility to teach our children the values that we believe will make for a better society. If everyone taught their kids that colours or other preferences aren't sex specific then why would it be social suicide?

At 5 hopefully the other kids will not be indoctrinated yet.

How do you intentionally trans someone? By allowing them to make their own choices? Are you saying that if these boys continue liking pink and frozen they will turn into women? Do you think sex (ie whether someone is male or female) has anything got to do with their colour preference or that you can make a boy more female by giving them a pink bottle?

We all know no one would second guess a girl dressing as Spider-Man, Buzz Lightyear, or Stitch.

But a boy dressing as a princess gets dragged into a different debate!

I would see no issue with this, it doesn’t sound like it comes with any silly ‘you’re a girl now’, I’d tell the school it’s their choice and you’re letting them be two young boys who like to express themselves.

Oh to not overthink everything lol

I have an adorable picture of my youngest at nursery on a dress up day - every single boy had picked a dress (the nursery similarly couldn't care less what the kids chose to wear and had an extensive dress-up box), except for one who was the hulk. The girls were in a total mix - anything from Spiderman to princess to cats.

I just remembered my eldest has also dressed as a female character for halloween, although most people probably wouldn't have realised it - he was Captain Phasma - the Stormtrooper with the silver armour :)

I think as long as there is balance, male and female based options and it is child led, then it’s fine. The issue arises when parents focus too much on one part and the child is shoe horned into something specific when there are other options they don’t know about. You have shared that they are exposed to lots of influences, so it sounds like it’s just what they want at that time

Why tho? He says Daddy we get to dress up as our favourite book, mine is Little Red Riding Hood!!
You say ok cool, I'll get you a wolf costume.
No Daddy, the wolf is naughty. He gets cut open. He eats people. He's a minor character. Etc. I love Red Riding Hood. She's kind and brave.

And you say... ? Noad, your penis will fall off in a frock?

its our job as parents to protect kids from social suicide and to make sure they know they can dress up but can’t ever change their sex. And not to intentionally trans them. It does seem a bit coincidental that both your boys are picking “girl” things so given the society we live in

Completely agree with this. Are you sure you are not going to far with making sure they are not limited to ‘boys’ choices?
For example, when you choose cups/hair bobbled/etc, if most of the time you ask them to choose between pink and another colour, of course they will choose pink fairly often. If you offer a choice between 5 different colours including pink, it might be less. And do you also offer a choice between unisex colours, green/yellow for ex or do you on purpose always include ‘girly’ colours?
Sale for the dressing up: are they watching shows with male leads they could dress up as? No issue with the girls costumes… just a bit odd that it seems to be most of the time.

There is no such thing as girls colours or boys colours. There is no such thing as girls toys and boys toys. The idea that there is such a thing- this sexism is the foundation of gender ideology which tells children they are trapped in the wrong body for liking certain colours/clothes/costumes/toys.

My daughter went as Willy Wonker to WBD, no one bats an eye lid when a girl goes as a male character, why shouldn't it be allowed the other way around if that's what the little boys have chosen. So long as they know sex is not a costume and their body parts make them boys, then it's not an issue.

I very much doubt they're missing out on shows and books with male leads - have you seen the stereotyping in kids stuff?

Paw Patrol grinds my gears - my kids loved it, and there they were, mostly boys except for one pink girl, and occasionally a purple girl. I told them Zuma was a girl to try to even it up a bit.

I’m as gender-critical as you get, but what OP is doing is literally the essence of what being GC is about.

Being GC means you reject societal gender roles and believe that however an individual dresses or presents, they remain the sex they were born as.

I actually think the more society accepts that the sexes don’t have to present in a traditional way, and that it’s perfectly possible to be non-conforming without magically changing sex, the happier and healthier everyone will be.

OP, I also have twins, but mine are B/G. At 5 yrs old, DS wanted a dolly because his sister had one. He used to put his teddies in her prams and parade them round the garden proudly. He was also partial to chucking on her dresses from time to time. He had short hair at that age but between the ages of about 8-12 he had very long hair.

He’s now 15 and hell would freeze over before he wore a dress. He has short hair. No interest in dolls but he still loves his teddies (he’s autistic). Very conforming to traditional gender now, not that it matters.

Let your boys wear whatever they want (but I second keeping them away from drag - that’s for adults). I think having the confidence to be unashamedly yourself is such an important lesson. I suspect they’ll grow out of it as society influences them - but it’s important you offer no sign of either praise or disappointment. It doesn’t matter if they choose to have short hair or grow out of pink bobbles, or conversely, whether they develop a lifelong desire to wear pink sparkly eyeshadow. I think when children feel they have to pick a certain way of looking to please other people, that’s when problems arise.

Re the woman who asked, answering without offence and honestly is your best option. As your boys are currently not meeting traditional gender roles, undoubtedly people will speculate. No harm done - it’s human nature.

Omg what a judgemental response!
She's not letting them choose a car, it's clothes for crying out loud. Clothes aren't gendered, they are fabric. I wear a blue uniform, with pants, omg I must be male (it's scrubs btw). If one child likes pink, why shouldn't they be able to wear it?

PP: Do you always dress to avoid being bullied? Why should anyone modify what they wear to please someone else's sensibilities. That's ridiculous. Especially at 5 years of age. The children can choose their dress up character surely, that's not bad parenting.

I encourage my DC to wear clothes that make their body feel happy. We all should feel comfortable in our own skin, and our clothes

If they have a mixture of girl and boy things then I don’t think it matters. But at the end of the day they aren’t buying their own dresses or bottles. I think school are just checking to make sure you aren’t pushing an identity or gender disappointment on your kids. My dad was one of four boys and his mum used to dress him in girl’s clothes as a baby/toddler as she’d really wanted a girl. I think clothes are clothes and I don’t care who wears what but that was not really coming from a healthy place

My sons have lots of friends, they're not socially ostracised. I don't doubt their tastes will change but I'm not shaming them for liking a colour