AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

[GentleMintCat]

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

It's a huge Multi Academy Trust.

Send your kid to a state school, then. Calm down. You have choices.

You can apply out of borough as well eg you might be close enough to schools in Brent etc

Ugh my DD went to a school like this but did sixth form elsewhere. She went in as a shiny, happy year 7 and came out with a huge drop in self-confidence, so bad that she stopped taking care of herself and was walking around like Worzel Gummage. She is dyslexic and struggling to keep up in class, the teachers generally disliked her because they thought she cpuldnt be bothered and wasn't listening - absolute arseholes. Those schools do get good results but at the expense of everything else.

There was also a lot of self-harming etc at this school too.

Sixth form at another school was so much better for her. It was absolutely the best decision to pull her out and quite a few of her friends also left at that time too.

It is a state school.

This is a bit of a change from the original post, you obviously had fairly decided opinions about this school in advance.

Trust yourself OP .
Various people have posted here much factual evidence that this particular school has been demonstrated to allow a deeply unhelpful / damaging environment for both students and teachers to develop.

The thing I find upsetting about these threads is how many posters seem positively gleeful at the idea of students receiving draconian punishments for minor infractions.

I’ve taught students from primary level to undergraduate ( Russell group ) as well as running extracurricular groups for people from widely diverse socioeconomic backgrounds over many years .
Kindness , fostering mutual respect & a creative approach have invariably worked in maintaining discipline and ensuring optimal academic results.
You can’t learn effectively if you’re either bored or scared .

*edited because frankly I inadvertently had a laugh at the coincidence of a sixties stereotype being repeated by a sixties handle. I added absolutely nothing to the conversation with the comment so I retract with apologies.

There are good schools in that borough. All Saints and KAA. I can give more info on KAA if you want.

There are many myths about Holland Park and this is one of them
A handful of Labour MPs sent their kids there in the 1970s - most notably Tony Benn.

I was there shortly afterwards and have spent my life being told that I was at the "socialist Eton" and it must have been like a private school. It was a feral school, full of kids who had been excluded from schools across inner London and a massive student turnover. Yes, we had the 30 kids from the Bulgarian embassy but we were also the favourite destination for families in Bayswater's notorious B&Bs.

It's a school with a checkered history; an overwhelmingly working class school planted in a residential area where 90% of the families routinely use the independent sector.

I have known a couple of people who taught there soon after qualification and were terrorised by the management, quickly moving to other schools.

I think the most recent MP to send his children there was actually Michael Gove.

Very much a thing of the past. It had a complete overhaul a few years ago - it was in the news a lot.

@GentleMintCat look.at the church schools too.
They don't always just take children from that religious background.
One South London one I looked at was CofE but was pretty much 60% Christian (various denominations) and 40% non Christian.
(unfortunately now closed down due to lack of pupils)

That’s kind of the point though; they should not be ‘warm and welcoming’ classrooms, but places where students don’t want to be. Don’t like it, follow the rules! In many schools they have been rooms with similar set ups as classrooms etc, so pupils misbehave to get some time in there away from their class, subject or teacher. Of course, that throws up other issues…
But if it’s a case of the room being a place where you’d rather not be, or not as nice as the other areas of learning, then you’ve really answered your own question.

Send her somewhere else. Behaviour can be terrible in schools and schools need to create structures in place to create boundaries. My children have had 1 detention each at their secondary school over 5 years. It's not that deep. They will get over it. It's a Victorian education system in the UK, that's true.

It may be that children are being sanctioned for minor matters but there are times when pupils don't tell the whole truth. Example: Johnny claims that he only broke a pencil, when the actuality is that he deliberately broke each pencil that the teacher gave him.

I'm sure the staff are going to love that. 🙄

Ah, academies. If possible run a mile. They are so strict that kids get put into isolation or suspended for uniform infringements. Kids are not allowed to be kids at these places. Just google, there's stories coming out now up and down the country.

So many studies showing that this doesnt prepare children for life, working collaboratively, problem solving etc does...I agree very sad

Unfortunately many schools are like this now. There often isn't much of an alternative.
(Can't speak for the other schools in the borough Holland Park is in as I don't know a huge amount about them)
I agree with the OP - I just find this style of education all very depressing.
Not everyone will agree with that though. Obviously.

Yup.

I used to do primary liaison when I was a young teacher. The first time that I went into some primary classes, the children would fall deathly quiet until they realised that I was just another teacher there to observe and to work with the class.

@SpanThatWorld Out of interest, the people you know who taught there - was that within the past three years? I ask purely because their reopening seems to have put a delay on ratings, so there could be a chance it's improved... (but personally, I'd be looking elsewhere!)

actually wanting to learn/your child to learn but being unable to because the teacher spends the entire time doing crowd control/off sick with stress due to bad behaviour makes lots of people 'devastated and angry.' I left school nearly 20 years ago and I'm still angry about how shit my secondary education was, and from everything I've heard it's only got worse.

given the pupils were so eager to show you these detention rooms it doesn't sound as though they find them hugely traumatising. sitting in a room designed to minimise distractions is hardly being thrown in the chokey. tbh given they're teenagers it probably reminds them of their dens bedrooms, perhaps they like having a little chill out in there!

If this school isn't the one for your child then don't apply there. But in 3 years time when she tells you about one of her classmates being arrested for bringing a knife to school or whatever, maybe curtains over windows won't seem so bad.

Yes, I know. As I posted already upthread, some MATs are particularly into these Michaela-style punishment / behaviour systems. I saw a couple of schools that were particularly bad, and they were also in UL — so it’s likely that it’s a common style of behaviour management within the MAT. But it is by no means only UL who have adopted this kind of behaviour management system to some degree.

It’s very fashionable in the state sector at the moment, and it goes beyond just “being strict with bad behaviour”: in the UL schools I’ve seen the kids are also lined up in the morning outside to be read an “improving” motto to each day; there are mantras about success that they chant; they aren’t allowed to speak in the corridors and have a specific system for moving between lessons and so on.

It’s pretty OTT and likely to suck the fun, soul and love of learning out of even the most compliant children, even if they all get nicely robotic results.

Did you want all the children chattering off-topic in lessons? Or doing projects where the ones with well-off parents (okay, most in Holland Park will be well-off?) can do well but the ones who don't have this advantage, or books at home, or visits to museums can't do well?
Quiet corridors mean no bullying. Quiet classrooms means children are working. Minor infringements of rules carry sanctions, as they must because otherwise they escalate to major infringements of rules.
It's not the school for you, obviously. Not all schools will be like this. Look at some others - but bear in mind a quiet atmosphere is a learning atmosphere. Though I am somewhat dismayed there was no interaction between teachers and students - but they are putting on a show, be aware.

Well I definitely ‘bang on ‘ about young people being treated with respect & kindness in a creative environment. .
My kids were lucky enough to go to such schools with great teachers had good relationships with both teachers & peers in establishments with minimal bullying & excellent academic outcomes .