AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

[GentleMintCat]

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

OP - my daughter's close friend had a horrible experience there. She was a lovely girl that my daughter was friends with through Pony Club. Really nice sweet girl in primary. She was constantly being put in detention/isolation at HP and ended up leaving school all together before GCSEs having got in with the wrong crowd. I don't think it's a nice place.

This stuff is incredibly fashionable in the state sector at the moment, especially in some multi-academy trusts. It’s the Michaela influence and it’s like a punishment system meets Maoist behavioural reeducation. It’s also why we are shelling out an absolute fortune (even with a big bursary and scholarship!) to send DD to an independent school where the kids have a happy, normal, relaxed school atmosphere, good pastoral care and positive relationships with the staff. They don’t sweat the small stuff about minor uniform infractions and talking and so on and the kids are happy and well behaved.

The other reason we’re sending DD there is for the greater range of academic subjects — Latin, Greek, several modern languages to choose from, lots of music and art. All the kind of things that state schools, even good grammars, rarely offer any more (most especially, the Classical and modern languages).

It’s like you now have to pay a fucking arm and a leg just to get what was quite a normal educational environment in many state schools only thirty or forty years ago.

OP, you've probably seen this, but looks like you're on the money. In 2022, the school was downgraded to inadequate due to, among other things, serious concerns about safeguarding and inappropriate use of the isolation room.

You obviously had a visceral reaction against it, so just do your best to send your child elsewhere.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61769951

I bet that building is like a greenhouse in the summer, too.

I saw a few CoFE schools and they seemed like more happier places, but when I checked how many offers were made last year, there were either zero or very few for different religions, and they were literally within 0.5 miles. I’ll try with the aptitude route, but of course, it’s not guaranteed.

Is this school hugely oversubscribed and you’re trying to put other families off, @GentleMintCat ??? 😂😂😂

Keep looking and you’ll find the right school. My daughter has just started in 7 year and loves it so far. Have some really good lunch time and after school clubs too, which are free! I did visit a couple of schools and really didn’t like the vibe, despite them having excellent exam results and ofsted etc.

It's a Comprehensive and part of the United Learning Academy Trust.
Academy doesn't mean selective.

The plus side to ur account of that school is that there probably isn't much bullying and kids feel safe to be there? Also kids who want to get on and do really well in their GCSEs probably won't have every lesson wrecked by out of control kids who take over. Ok a bit dry and a bit dull, but maybe it's peaceful and calm.
Not saying it is, but just a thought.

parents who bang on about "creativity and enjoyment" always have the worst bullies, disruptive pain in the neck children of the school 😂

Why is that?

I’d hate my child to go to a place where they punish every little thing. My DD goes to a small independent school and you have to do something actually naughty to get a detention. If you forget something, you just borrow it, if your uniform isn’t perfect you get reminded etc. Like it is in real life in the work place!

They have a more “working together as almost equals” type of ethos where the girls want to buy into their education and, in general, there is very very little bad behaviour.

I know it might be easier in a smaller school but I really believe if you trust kids to behave and treat them with respect then you’ll get that back.

Not every task, in every subject, every day can be designed to foster creativity. School is about far more than that.

Tbh, you’re not going to find many pre-teens/teens enthusiastic with school. It’s not ‘cool’ to be overly excited. And the detention room sounds like a lot of others. Sometimes detention rooms are used to calm children down too who have had meltdowns due to behavioural issues. Assume they are trying to adapt it to meet different scenarios.

So sad. I’m glad she left the school. My DD is polite and well-behaved, has a sense of pride, and would absolutely be devastated being told off for small things or sent to detention. I don’t understand how people here tend to accept this shaming, punishment, and detention culture in schools and not seeing how it affects confidence, motivation, and overall behaviour. I’m absolutely not for tolerating disruptive behaviour though.

I’d hate my child to go to a place where they punish every little thing. My DD goes to a small independent school and you have to do something actually naughty to get a detention.

Yes, but what if you can't afford an independent school and your only choices are schools with appalling behaviour and terrible results and a school with draconian discipline, but well-behaved kids and great results?

I would absolutely hate this kind of permissive schools.

If you forget something, you just borrow it
from who? You are disturbing and taking the necessities from another child who DID make an effort to have his kit?

They forget their mouthguard at PE, they"borrow" one? Ridiculous.

if your uniform isn’t perfect you get reminded
what's the point of a uniform if you get "reminded" and never bother?

Like it is in real life in the work place!
if you "forget" a presentation or something important, you can get sacked. In real life...

And I speak as the mum of kids who are more interested in messing around and having fun than their schooling. It stil takes them less than 2mn every evening to go through their timetable and pack everything they need. Zero excuse for "forgetting" something.

My DH worked there and hated it as said he felt like he was treated as an automaton, never mind the kids. Run!

The turnover of teachers at Holland Park is enormous. It is an incredibly tough place to work and teachers tend to leave as soon as they can get a job elsewhere.

My daughter's go to an Academy and it's nothing like this, they have wonderful, enthusiastic teachers, a fantastic drama/music department, the kids are celebrated constantly. My eldest is in yr11 and hasn't had a single detention, my yr9 also hasn't had one. The teachers know the kids so well and seem really dedicated. This is in a deprived area and is a small school (around 550 pupils). Keep looking, good schools are out there.

because decent parents teach their kids a bit of resilience and teach them to make the effort of having what they need and being on time.

We also don't believe that consequences are SHAMING anyone.

Being "devastated" because you get told off for being in the wrong?Wow, what kind of parents must they have to be so unprepared.

They can't be bothered to arrive on time in class? Then the consequence is detention, big deal Why should they be allowed to disrupt the class by turning up late for no reason?

But my point is that the girls at our school are well behaved and generally do conform / remember things without the overly firm discipline. They want to do well because they’re respected and valued as equals by their teachers. So on the odd occasion something is forgotten it’s not made into a big deal.

I don’t see why the firmness is needed - if you believe in the kids they’ll step up.

@GentleMintCat I personally agree that some of the "soviet school punishments" sound better than having to sit in a dark room.
At my secondary (ordinary English Comprehensive in the 80s) a popular (with the teachers) punishment was litter picking at lunchtime.
Of course that was in the days when we had at least an hour for lunch unlike the ridiculous 20 minutes they seem to get these days.
You actually had time to eat, pee and go do your litter picking 😂
Another version of detention was having to help sort books in the library or tidy gym equipment.

My DC are at an academy (aren't virtually all schools these days?) and it's nothing like this. It's very nurturing, the teachers really love the kids, sadly too many kids don't really love to learn and there are punishments but not draconian and not for tiny things. My kids just got amazing GCSE results in a school where the results are generally low due to a low attainment area (white working class) because the teachers try their best for all students.

So not all academies, no.

In my experience (as a retired secondary teacher) children often do become very quiet when visitors are in.

I still remember the time an inspector came into my S3/Y10 class when we were analysing a snippet of film. My usually lively class became deathly quiet.

At one point I said "No need to be so nervous - I'm nervous enough for all of us!"

Nothing.

I asked "What do you think we're supposed to think of this character?"

Nothing. Not a single hand.

Then...one hand went up. Pamela. The "naughty" girl...but - God bless her - she was trying to help.

"Yes, Pamela?"

"Oh, her? She's a pure bitch that one!"

I saw the inspector repressing a smile.

You'll find that parents often send their children to faith schools in the expectation that they'll be stricter.

The main Orthodox church in Edinburgh is in the process of trying to fund an Orthodox Christian primary school.

Well I think your instincts were right. It would have been a hell of a job to turn this culture around in such a short space of time.
My friend had moved to an academy as HoD to find all the teachers have been doing is reading off PowerPoint and kids just copy it all down into their books. The management are a nightmare and he has now had a breakdown. This is an outstanding school apparently.