AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

[GentleMintCat]

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

YANBU - education is SO SO far from what it should be right now. It’s wildly authoritarian and then they wonder why kids don’t respect their oppressors? Change must come soon.

I heard this about Holland Park when I stared teaching 20 years ago. And since then I think more And more schools have gone this way.

I thought it was awful when I went to see it 15 years ago!

DD2 went there. That was in Mr Hall’s day. She went to another local school after GCSEs. Not the greatest academically but the teachers cared about the kids.

DD2 did make some lovely friends there but that was the only bonus. It’s frustrating but try and make the best of it.

Trust your gut instincts on this one. There's been Ofsted reports about the school and read the articles on the BBC and guardian. Whilst things may have changed, if this is what your gut is telling you then trust it

That sounds grim, OP, and I really like the sound of those Soviet school punishments. At our local school, the children throw all their rubbish all over the school grounds, and local people are asked to volunteer to clean it up. Absolute madness.

"Thank you. We need more people with common sense, and I promise that if my DD ends up at that school, I will absolutely bring down those black curtains and fight to make her experience as good as I possibly can."

Oh for heavens sake, don't send her there, I have just looked up the School and it gets good results. The school will listen to your concerns but will not change it because of you. If your kid gets detention, support the school and tell your kid to behave. She is one of many pupils. The schools have to keep discipline and make it a quiet, peaceful for all to learn.

It doesn't mean all schools are like this. My son goes to an Academy and it's brilliant, he loves it. He's engaged in his lessons, loves trying the different after school clubs, the head teacher has worked there all his career and is often seen walking around chatting to the students.

I would also try to do a tour when the school is open there than an open morning. They were probably primed how to act and you maybe haven’t seen the school in its real light. If you think that’s it’s real light fun for the hills.

I’ve had some experience of children from that school. Badly behaved and arrogant. No idea why it has a good reputation.

I would write a letter to the head & governors to inform them of the reason why you have decided against their school. Sometimes SLT are blinkered & they don't always step back to see the wider impact of their decisions.

Maybe it is not a bad thing to highlight the impact of their decision to introduce a stazi era detention room. You could also mention that the punishment at your old soviet era school wasn't as harsh as theirs. It might give them something to think about or they might bin your letter but at least they would have read it.

I completely understand why you're angry and upset - you thought you'd be sending your DD to school but it seems very strict and not child centred. I'd be very upset too.

Those saying just go to a different school seem to think there's huge choice, and that everyone gets their first choice.

I used to be a teacher, I know how important discipline is for all kids to learn, but kids shouldn't be taken out of class to a detention room for minor infractions, that doesn't promote learning at all.

Sadly a lot of time in academies is just managing behaviours. Nothing you have described is out of ordinary for our local schools. Unless you are paying for private school I think a nurturing creative environment Is very hard to find. Increasing Class sizes, mixed abilities and decreasing sen budgets combined by teachers leaving the profession in their droves added with schools ability to employ unqualified teachers, pressures on teachers to deliver grades with all the focus on English and maths has sucked the creative parts of curriculum out of the timetable. Common sense may say isolation or detention for minor infringements is extreme but in reality this is what is happening in schools now, whether it’s uniform, equipment or lateness. Secondary school now is so far from my experience in the 90s.

I always say to people, if you want to judge a school, ask to see the student support/SEN area and the detention/isolation room. Which one is bigger and better equipped will tell you where the school's priority is support or punishment.

I know a few people who grew up in Notting Hill and went to this school. They said the catchment area had shrunk and the pupil cohort is now very posh, as a result the school has lost a lot of its diversity, creativity and energy. Don’t know if it’s true or not but that’s a local view for you.

There are a) schools where chaos reigns, b) schools which have imposed draconian measures to prevent chaos reigning, and c) schools which are not chaotic in the first place (usually due to their specific intake) and don't need draconian regimes. I'm lucky enough to teach in c) now, but I've taught in a) and can therefore well understand why lots people might prefer b) if a) and b) are their only choices. There are a lot of a) schools.

I'll add... if you or your child have real-life experience of an a) school, you might find that a b) school doesn't make you quite as angry and sad.

This is the bottom line I’m afraid. Quite often the alternative to this type of regime wouldn’t be a lovely relaxed, nurturing atmosphere; it would be chaos with no one able to learn.

They became normalised around the same time parents stopped backing the teachers, and started to complain about every little punishment Jeremy and Jemima got, no matter how bad their behaviour was

Absolutely

A darkened quiet room?

Yes Please!!!

You will find people get really antsy once you touch their "beloved" education systems whichever country/system you pick.

I agree with you re "detention for breathing wrong way" is too much and personally would stay as far as I could from this school.

BTW, you do not need to belong to CoFE to send your child there.

Absolutely NOT the case at ours (single academy trust). Amazing school.

There's been multiple reports on Holland Park School and OP's visit matches the accusations.

Don't send your child there, then.

As a teacher, I would find it pretty upsetting for someone to pop up on Mumsnet slagging off my school after a brief visit. You don't like it...fine. no need to give it a huge Name and Shame post on a high traffic site, regularly trawled by the media. The school isn't doing anything wrong, just stuff you personally don't like. Teaching is hard enough without people moaning about schools they don't really know and have no intention of sending their kid to in the first place.

If it’s not the right school for your child, then that’s fine. Just choose another one. But, be careful what you wish for. Creativity may be at a cost of behaviour. This week, I’ve had a chair thrown at me, been kicked and called a cunt. I’m not even a teacher.

Surely the point if a punishment is that the recipient doesn't like it and decides not to be sent there again, job done.

Having grown up in Notting Hill, I'd warn you off that dump. Even now the kids are often violent and in trouble with local police, and it's not a great school overall.

If you're looking to place boys and are a Catholic, my older brother went to Cardinal Vaughan Memorial School in Holland Park. One of the best state schools in London. Almost every student in his year group went on to uni, mostly UCL/Imperial/top 20s, with 3 Oxford entries and 2 Cambridge. He had a fantastic time there, with great pastoral support.

For girls, at state level I'd recommend Camden School for Girls (my alma mater), Lady Margaret's, or Greycoat Hospital. My neighbour's daughter went to Harris Manchester Academy in St John's Wood, which has a high Russell Group/Oxbridge intake - she graduated from Cambridge earlier this year with a 1st class STEM BA.