Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

In this context, yes. All day long.

It really isn't either/or! Most of the teachers will be following the school's behaviour policy.

I wouldn't have much faith in SMT if that is how they react; if it's a once off, maybe, but not considering the teacher's other flaky behaviour.

I would be genuinely interested to see the response.

‘One of those’ is certainly how I would describe some people on this thread. Not the thoughtful professional teachers who have responded or the concerned parents with sensible advice though.

I think some posters always assume that the teacher is by definition always right and a concerned mum is automatically being ‘that parent’. Life isn't black and white.

It's possible to conclude that the OP’s DS behaved badly by talking (which the OP and her DS accept) whilst also concluding that the teacher shouldn't have humiliated him. Both can be true at the same time.

The OP has every right to raise the issue with the school. She says her DS has never been in trouble before so I'm guessing that she’s never complained before. It shouldn't make her ‘that parent’.

I don’t think they’re ready for the next level of this lesson yet. I was thinking we could start with how it’s ok after a theatre performance but not when someone has fallen over and broken their leg.

I think I've read most of the posts on their thread now and despite so many people being absolutely convinced that the clapping was reasonable, not one of them is a teacher. The teachers have quite different views.

My experience is that most teachers are incredible caring people who really care about all their students, even the difficult ones, even on really difficult days, and would see humiliation like those as abhorrent. And there are some teachers who really should be doing something else, just as in any job.

I was talking about the fact that mum is supporting the school.

The numerous suggestions that she's not make for painful reading.

Yes and it also does a disservice to all the professional teachers who have built non-abusive methods for building a rapport and disciplining where needed. Multiple teachers on here who have actually admitted that they sometimes make mistakes given the pressure involved. Mistakes that don’t involve humiliating a student and having the rest of the class join in.

Sometimes I think that the men from Jackie Weaver’s parish council zoom meeting have accidentally wandered onto mumsnet and decided they’ll give us their 1967 take on school discipline.

Would you be happy if your boss did this to you at work, and involved all your colleagues in humiliating you, over a mistake or issue, @BeavisMcTavish?

I cannot understand people who think it is appropriate to humiliate anyone for something like this. I would not tell someone off in front of their colleagues, because it would be humiliating for them - but apparently children do not deserve decent treatment.

The clapping was totally unnecessary and designed to humiliate. It wouldn’t have done anything to make your DS improve his behaviour.

Kids are incredibly cruel to each other as it is, they don’t need teachers encouraging them.

You definitely really are that poster.

It’s scary that so many parents here speak so disgustingly about children. I very much doubt that they are raising the well-behaved children of the future.

We raised our children with firm boundaries and were at the strict end of the spectrum. Of course we sometimes argued, but it was always direct communication. I never mocked or humiliated them.

I supported School in their sanctions and viewed my relationship with the teachers as a partnership to try and get the best out of our children. I won’t list my kids’ achievements but one is at university and one is working now and they are respectful and decent young adults with a strong moral compass. Whilst I partly take credit!, I do share that with the mostly wonderful teachers they met through their school journey. And neither I nor the teachers had to mock the kids!

I feel sorry for the kids of the parents here who feel that humiliation is a vital tool of discipline. Which is very poor role modelling and a sign of lack of control in their parenting and ability to discipline. Kids are (mostly) not the enemy.

Some adults here need to get a grip and sense of perspective. And properly read the OP’s comments!

I am loving your posts by the way. Great work.

So many here should not be teachers or parents. Thank goodness for the professional teachers on here that have spoken up against this 24y fool. We need the crap teachers to go. And keep the decent ones, like the many who taught my children.

Thank you for this. You sound similar to the many professional and excellent teachers I have come across in my life as a parent.

So of I have enough of a kid I can just do anything I want?

To all the people here supporting humiliation of kids, I hope you are not parents. If you do have children, you are bringing up children who will resent you for your unpleasant mocking of them. Or you are raising the next generation of bullies. Well done, here’s a clap for you. 👏

If you need advice on how to support school, set boundaries for your children and raise them to be decent and respectful adults, without using mocking and humiliation, let me know if I can help.

Agree.
I am a great believer in school discipline and my children have attended schools that were/are very firm on classroom control etc.and good behaviour with great respect shown to their teachers.
They have always had great role models in their teachers.
But there is no way the humiliation of a student like this would be tolerated by students, parents, teachers or the schools Principals.
If I heard a teacher did this I would look for clarification, even if it wasn't my child that was the target.

MN is a parallel universe though so I suppose this is just more of it.
I don't parent via humiliation, why would I want my children taught that way?

Concentrate on dealing with your son's behaviour rather than trying to have a pop at the teacher.

this.
so what if it was 'humiliating' (really? get a grip).
getting yourself into fifty grands worth of debt only to have to repeat yourself 100 times and shout while being ignored by arrogant little scrotes is probably a bit embarrassing too.
Trying to actually get an education while your teacher is constantly distracted by idiots chatting to their friends is probably upsetting too.

Given the other kids were clapping along presumably they also found your DS annoying.

If there are 30 kids in a class and each of them spoke out of turn at least twice per lesson (and sounds like this was actually only within part of the lesson), then that teacher is being interrupted every single minute.

How is anybody supposed to learn anything in those circumstances?

arrogant little scrotes

This phrasing says a lot about the kind of person you are. I hope you are not a parent.

Id be fuming my £50k didn't help me with strategies to manage a bunch of kids effectively tbh

Oh, she has, if you read her posts, you can see that she’s fully looked into his previous behaviour on the school portal and it’s actually been very positive. She’s also repeatedly said she supports the appropriate discipline procedures as documented by the school herself. So no ‘pop’ being taken by the OP. Just by the teacher at OP’s son, and…. by you at the OP. But you knew that 🙂

It has a definite air of ‘man shakes fist at clouds!’