Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

YANBU OP. I’d be absolutely livid in your shoes. The teacher sounds like an absolute bell end. The response you’ve got in the comments is classic MN. So I’d ignore most of it tbh.
You’ve been very clear about your son’s usual good behaviour, the teacher’s admission that it was nothing more than taking twice and that you agree a consequence was warranted.
Your son deserves dignity at school. We all mess up from time to time, but what that teacher did, and the resulting humiliation was completely unacceptable. My child would be very upset and it would alter their school experience and trust in teachers.
I’d be putting in a complaint (also include his other behaviours that you’ve described - gun gestures, wow!). Wife of a headteacher and former school governor btw.
Hope your son is ok.

Get a grip!! I feel sorry for teachers,they can’t do anything can they!! Cruel ………really!

Stop pampering and mollycoddling children,no wonder they can’t cope out in the real world.

Teach some respect,still can’t get over the thread the other week where a 3 year old should be more entitled to a seat on public transport than a pensioner.

There won’t be any teachers left soon!

Wow I’m shocked at all the negative responses on here. This isn’t great teaching or behaviour management at all. He could have done a number of strategies for children talking, yes annoying but the punishment certainly doesn’t match the crime. I am also a teacher and things should have moved on from this sort of stuff although I do teach younger children. If you want to bring it up with the school I would have a good look at the behaviour policy as it will be clearly stated in there the steps to isolation and afterschool detention. Not sure they’ll do much about it and I imagine they’ll never admit to you that it’s OTT as they’ll want to support staff but they might flag it with the teacher so he doesn’t continue to dish out such extreme sanctions.

Nobody should be humiliating anybody…even in the ‘real world’. Using humiliation is a low way to try and assert dominance and control - it is abusive.
The teacher does need to have control ove the behaviour of the children and children do need to learn to toe the line and that there will be consequences when they don’t. I have taught for a long time and have never resorted to this. Firmness, 0 tolerance for the small things and a good relationship where children trust you have been my most effective strategies so far. Have I won over every child I’ve ever taught? No. But I have always had a good level of classroom management and would never resorted to humiliation.

"There won’t be any teachers left soon!"

Well the one OP describes should be put on a disciplinary for his outlandish and unprofessional behaviour.

"He does things like hides behind doors in the school corridor with his hands clasped together to mimic the shape of a gun and then pretends to fire bullets at students as they walk along to their lessons, including at a student with known severe autism who really struggles at school and who had a major meltdown in response to this."

The teacher was a bit ott but this could have been the last straw in a bad day for him. I wouldn't have complained in your situation, I would have told my child if they listened in the first place they wouldn't have got the detention. Life lesson. I'm all for supporting teachers but I work in a school and know the shit they have to put up with.

Agree that it sounds like the teacher took it too far, BUT, DS should've listened the first time and not continued to disrupt the rest of the class.
Part of the reason that some kids are so disresprectful to everyone and anyone is because of this kind of scenario. Where they misbehave, get told off, cry to Mummy who then kicks off and heyho kid does it again and again and again because they know Mummy will always say something and before you know it you're on MN in a few years asking for advise because of school/college refusal/staying out late/being disrespectful, drinking etc.
I remember telling my Dad I got told off and his reply was "well you wont' do it again will you" I probably did do it again but I never went crying to my Dad again

I have't read the whole thread but enough-I think the fact that the class joined in clapping meant that they were also sick of your DS disrupting their lesson.

I'd take this one on the chin and look more at your son's behaviour-very easy to never have this happen again

Early 40’s here and I can remember being hit with a ruler in school so….
If you are really annoyed you can write to the head of year. Personally I’d be telling him to stop talking in class and move on. He still has 2 years left at this school? You probably don’t want to be kicking off over clapping.

If this is currently all you are worried about then I’d say you have nothing to worry about, why does everyone fuss so much over their child getting a hit of humiliation and punishment when they were actually doing something to deserve it. Jeez this generation aren’t going to be able to handle an ounce of criticism or anything directed at them in future because Mummy’s Little Soldier doesn’t like it 🙄

The spectacle of people piling on to tell the OP how dreadfully behaved her son is and how he needs old-fashioned discipline, and how she must be bringing him up badly and lying about what happened, etc etc, is most unedifying.

He shouldn't have been talking and he should have heeded his first warning.
However, the teacher clapping and basically jeering him out of the room, encouraging and/or allowing the class to join in, is unprofessional, bordering on bullying, and straight up unacceptable. My dad's a retired head teacher and he would have handed a teacher their arse if they behaved like that towards pupils.

I'm surprised how many people on this thread think humiliation is an acceptable punishment for a child. Because that's the intent isn't it?

Actions have consequences, of course. But humiliation, really? The punishment was being told to leave the room and getting a detention. The clapping was cruel and unnecessary.

If I do something my husband doesn't like or deems disrespectful would it be OK for him to humiliate me as punishment? I expect if I posted here that he had done that the responses would be that he is abusive.

Why do people think it's OK to treat children in ways we certainly wouldn't treat another adult?

And why are we teaching them it's OK to humiliate others as long as you feel it's justified for their behaviour?

I can't imagine ever feeling the need to humiliate a kid to prove my point, that's just nasty.

It’s not great behaviour from the teacher who I’m assuming was quite young themself but it’s certainly not bullying or ritual humiliation which other posters have said. Ultimately if he wasn’t being a pain in the bum none of this would have happened. Hopefully he has learned his lesson.

Exactly this - tell him to behave himself in future. Seems like everyone was at the end of their rope with his nonsense. The clapping isn't ideal but we all have bad days - and the kids weren't forced to join in the clapping - they chose to, which should tell you something.

He talked twice this time. How often does he ignore the teacher and disrespect the other students? What was he saying, it would be embarrassing if you make a fuss and find he was mocking the teacher.

Have you got teenage kids?? Aren't you a delight

Yeah this exactly. Getting the class to join in too - nice. Some teachers shouldn't be teaching kids imo. My DC had loads at secondary school who were minor bullies & semed to hate their jobs.

Yes, I have seen this regularly over my decades of teaching- maybe 5-10% of teachers behave like this at least sometimes. Most don’t. In my previous school I would watch the Headteacher walk past gangs of pupils wearing totally inappropriate uniform and say nothing, but then pounce on a year 7 with his or her shirt undone. The teacher opposite my room would take out her frustrations and desire for power on the best behaved pupils who made a slip one day, and curry favour with the persistent disruptors. She knew that the gangs of older, more challenging kids would answer back, and didn’t want to be seen to be ignored. I have no respect for this sort of teacher. I am surprised that so many on this post have chosen to doubt you. It’s a common dynamic. It reminds me of the time my parents were picking blackberries near a railway line-in their 60’s. A member of the transport police approached them to tell them they were trespassing, completely ignoring the gang of teenagers smoking spliffs and spraying graffiti!

MN is not the benchmark that most would use for parenting children.
No wonder there is such a crisis among childrens mental health, when so many seem to believe humiliation is an acceptable practice.

Thank goodness my children went to/go to schools where neither staff, principal, management nor parents, would have allowed such treatment of children to go unchallenged.

everyone was at the end of their rope with his nonsense
What nonsense? Going on the OP's other posts about her son, please can you explain how you've come to the conclusion that people were 'at the end of their rope' with him?
the kids weren't forced to join in the clapping - they chose to, which should tell you something. It tells me there's a herd mentality at work, which should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever interacted with, or indeed been, a teenager. The question is why a teacher would choose to encourage and lead behaviour that shows this mentality.

My last lesson today was with year 11 boys, who were chatty, silly and would not stfu.
Anyone who is ‘raging’ at the teacher has clearly never had to try and get kids who can’t be arsed to have manners to behave and thinks it’s a teachers job to what?…suck it up and get results out of them anyway?

It’s not my style to do what the teacher did, but I understand why it happened. Your son was rude and disrespectful, his ego was bruised at being made a laughing stock. Maybe he won’t be rude and disrespectful next time. Or he will, but don’t expect him to meet his potential.

sorry, being a bit ranty but it has been a bad day!!

When he talked the first time, did he feel humiliated being told off by the teacher in front of his peers? I expect not - otherwise he would not have spoken again. As a teacher, it would not be my choice to clap like that but it is frustrating for the teacher and the class to have their learning stopped when pupils talk. Let your son take the punishment and learn that it is rude to interrupt a teacher in class.

I worked at a school where they rolled R2L out and it transformed behaviour and relationships too. It’s black and white, and everyone knows where they stand. I’ve just started at a school with the old keep them in class and the class teacher chases detentions system, and some of my lessons are like ‘whack-a-mole’ for an hour.

The government guidance on safeguarding "Keeping Children Safe in Education," regards humiliating children as a low level concern which needs addressing by the school. You should complain about that aspect of the situation in writing to the head teacher and chair of governors or follow the complaints procedure on their website.

"Also very depressing to see how some posters (many of them teachers) think of kids as liars, manipulators, etc. by default."

Very many teachers would tell you that many kids are not and the majority cause little or no issues.

However kids who repeatedly ignore instructions talks over other at the expense of their learning will often minimise what they have done, lie about it, blame others and go round telling their mates they got a detention "for nothing".