Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

Yep, if the kid had been behaving properly none of it would have happened.

The whole thing seems massively over the top and out of proportion! Being sent out of the room for the rest of the lesson probably would have been more than enough. Sounds like the teacher hates his job and takes it out on the kids tbh. I understand why you and your son would be upset.

I think a simple response to your son along the lines of well don’t talk in class again and it won’t happen again might have been the most pragmatic course of action here

Yeah, round of applause for the superior resilience maybe?

Teacher's behaviour was highly unnecessary. I can't stand dick teachers like this.

Corporal punishment I.e hitting a child with a ruler at a state school was outlawed in a1986 so unless you went to a fee paying school you’re confused about your age, you weren’t hit and are just saying this to add to your suck it up post or your teacher broke the law… One of these things is more likely than the others

Really? Is that how you think discipline should be carried out in schools, by humiliating young people?

Op can do that and raise the teachers very inappropriate handling of the situation with the school.

Another (ex) teacher here - I never saw this in 30+ years of teaching secondary, and had any teacher do this in a lesson I was observing (something I did quite a lot of as a Senior Manager). I would certainly have told them not to repeat it if they had, and given them written advice on that point to keep a record of it.

And if the lesson was by an applicant for a position in the school on interview, it would be a red flag and probably would rule them out.

Possible very inappropriate handling. If true, I agree it is inappropriate. I would be interested to hear both sides though.

However, I have seen teachers do this, and often to usually well-behaved pupils who they know will not answer back.

Thank you for this. It made me feel quite emotional thinking of how the history teacher bullied me 40y ago! I was such an easy target who would never speak back or tell my parents. To this day, I wonder what they got out of it. I am so glad that my kids had lovely teachers overall.

I struggle to believe that a class of teens would care about a peer talking twice during a PE lesson.

When I was a medical student in the 90s, there was still a culture of learn by humiliation. Arrogant consultants would shout and patronise. It did not improve learning at all and created a culture of fear. As a consultant now, I would not dream of humiliating a student. Some can be cocky and problematic but I talk to them like adults and we sort the problem. No disrespect or attempt to humiliate those who haven’t done the work, aren’t listening etc. Those types of consultant still exist. They are usually also crap at their jobs and are respected by nobody.

I assume a teacher who uses humiliation as a tool just isn’t very good at their job.

This teacher delivered the punishment with isolations and detentions. The extra sarcastic clap at the end served what function???

It's the fashion nowadays in secondary schools - nurture, warmth and mutual tolerance are out, while zero tolerance, humiliation and dehumanisation are in.

If the teacher had forgotten something or made a mistake and your DS had clapped him mockingly, he would no doubt have been in the deputy head's office and in internal suspension faster than his feet could touch the ground.

The old adage, "Treat others as you would like to be treated", seems to be generally disregarded in schools nowadays. It's a shame because of course the teaching staff and management should be setting an example for the children in their care for how to behave in adult life.

The teacher sounds like a complete prick. I’d ask them what ritual humiliation teaches a child? But I wouldn’t expect to get a useful reply.

You’re either just lying or you work in a hideous place and have bought into the culture…or you’re the boss.

What is it you want?

The teacher pulled up and reprimanded?
The teacher fired?
Your son to remember a humiliating experience that will probably stop him doing it again?

Sorry but children should not be shielded from everything that makes them feel bad. These are learning experiences that help them grow and mature and understand that they don't have free reign to behave exactly the way they please without repercussions.

I'd say no, in 2025 teachers shouldn't be humiliating teenagers like this. Even though your son will probably be fine, it's going to damage his trust in teachers which isn't great.

I would email the school along the lines of concern for the teacher's wellbeing because a teacher snapping like that needs some support. If it turns out this teacher regularly does this sort of thing then your comment becomes evidence for the school to take different action. If it really was a good teacher having a bad day then their colleagues should know so they can offer some help.

Wish the schools I worked at had this, instead of the “let’s talk about why you behave like this” that just meant the kids could skive lessons and get a five minute chat and no real hardships or repercussions. Honestly, the amount of teachers who had disruptive kids in their class because the support team were too busy dealing (chatting with) with other disruptive kids, was unbelievable. The amount of science teachers who wouldn’t do practicals because they knew it would be dangerous because of the disruptive kids, therefore the whole class missed out. This sounds like an excellent system.

Doesn't sound like this teacher learned any of these lessons earlier in life does it? Is your DS at an academy school OP? I find their punishments for minor infringements draconian and guaranteed to alienate students. What is the point of isolation for minor misdemeanors? For disruptive or potentially dangerous behaviour, fine. But for speaking to someone? If a teacher can't react to that in a better way and then behaves childishly and humiliates his pupil I'd say he's in the wrong job.

I'd add that calling the OP's DS a 'brat' for speaking to his friend, is appalling.

Crikey.
The OPs son was talking, was warned and then punished appropriately to the schools 'behaviour policy'.
Yes the teacher seemed to behave like a dick, but I guess the OPs son won't talk in his lessons again ;).
I'm over 50 and saw some teacher behaviour towards some pupils that would really make your hair curl.....
OP - move on.

If he hasn't got enough respect to do as he's asked by his teacher the first time, it'll do him good to realise nobody else likes his behaviour either.

This is the problem. If it’s ok for one student to quietly talk to their friend whilst the teacher is talking, and no consequence given, then how would it work if several students are talking quietly? Instructions will be missed by some students, chaos and confusion arises, the game can not proceed safely as not all students know what to do. Unless you view your son as extra special and not required to follow the rules….. Also, have you not taught him that talking over others is just plain bad manners?