Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

Why do so many posters think humiliation is part of a school behaviour and sanctions policy? It never is. The dc hasn’t really done enough to warrant detention. Surprised anyone thinks the clapping by the teacher is ok. Maybe other dc were glad to see the back of him but they should have been told to stop and the teacher should not have clapped in the first place . I’m not sure anyone learns from this.

Schools publish behaviour policies for good reason. I would be asking why it wasn’t followed and ask if the teacher needed to read it. What’s the point of an agreed policy if teachers do their own humiliation policy instead?

Being sent out is fine. The clapping is just ott and it's just feels a bit off.

If the teacher sent him out and did this the first time you’d have a point - although presumably expectations of behaviour and consequences were already explained to students beforehand, It was immature of the teacher but you’re unreasonable to step in and complain, your sons not 3 years old.

This generation of parents are so quick to deflect their kids shitty behaviour and focus on who’s to blame in the aftermath for their own hurt feelings. If he hadn’t talked AGAIN it wouldn’t have happened. He wasn’t punished at random.

You talk about your son’s humiliation in front of the class - what about the teacher’s humiliation every time your son and other students break the rules and disrupt his lessons by talking over him when he is trying to teach? Your son showed contempt and an utter lack of respect to someone in authority who is trying to help
him with his academic career and was treated in a similar fashion - hopefully this will teach him not to do it again.

Re the OP’s reaction to her son talking in class, are people here thick or wilfully obtuse? The OP has repeatedly said she has accepted he was in the wrong for talking and was rightfully punished. She has discussed this with her son. It’s the idiotic clapping that she dislikes.

Some people seem so angry with this 13y boys. It’s odd. And I am v much a strict parent. The punishment should fit the crime.

The issue is with the extra humiliation at the end. I can’t believe so many here think that particular behaviour is ok. Esp parents and teachers. Very unpleasant. I hate the mocking of others that goes on on MN and I hate it in this teacher’s behaviour. Harsh, blunt etc is ok. Mocking and humiliation are unpleasant.

OP, you are right to be upset by that. I don’t know if challenging it will work. It seems from here that teachers do not like anything negative being pointed out. I think you have to accept that a tiny minority of teachers are bullies. I had a bully teacher 40 years ago and remember it like it was yesterday. I was an extremely quiet, unattractive, lonely and unhappy child and I wonder if that was why she targeted me as it was easy. At least your son has you and will be ok. That teacher will hopefully learn better behaviour as he matures. What a way for him to behave.

The teacher is an arse , I would feel the same OP. This is unacceptable and hardly conducive to a good relationship going forwards

Yep that sounds like the secondary school male teachers my son has had to experience. Toxic, sarcastic and aggressive. No wonder our young men feel targeted.

Most teachers/ex teachers on this thread disagree with the clapping, which is very telling.

Yet op seems unwilling to speak to the teacher about this aspect.

Not a point about this specific teacher (he sounds awful from the updates)

But a general point about the shock of a teacher "humiliating a pupil"

In general it isn't a good idea, but there are circumstances where it is the most effective course of action for a teacher/leader.

Not with the majority of pupils, but there are some (often boys) students who will constantly challenge the teacher's authority.. metaphorically 'squaring up' to those in authority, pushing them to prove their leadership etc. I have seen this time and time again in my years in classrooms, and to be honest, one of the best ways of dealing with that type of challenge, is to put them in their place. A bit of embarrassment on their half, is the quickest way of sending them back down into the pack, and restoring the hierarchy of a class or any leader-ship setting.

But, again its a rare occasion, and only for a certain type of bad behaved student - for most, especially shy/good students like the OP's son, it is a terrible method that will lead to nothing good at all.

She might today, there’s still time.

Phones are allowed in PE lessons?

Maybe next time he’ll do as he’s asked

This. Hardly the end of the world. 🙄

Well it’s obviously not is it considering I wrote it like that and it didn’t bother me, bothered you so that’s your problem

Maybe someone who is fed up of being ignored by students? Considering 48 people have liked and hearted my comments I know it’s not an unpopular opinion

I didn’t know we could only post things that are the end of the world on here.

Your dopamine must be sky high with that kind of validation.

Is that why you’re posting? For the “likes”?

No I’m posting my opinion, the ‘likes’ were mentioned to show it’s not an unpopular one.
If I were to post for likes I’d be saying what the majority are saying

My god, I’d be reporting the “shooting” incidents immediately. He sounds an absolute idiot who should be nowhere near dc.

Of course it’s not okay to humiliate another person like this. The teacher is a role model and the leader in the room and sets the dynamic for the children to follow. This teacher has demonstrated how to treat people and this behaviour wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) be tolerated in the workplace so it’s a damaging lesson. You were right to call it out, so even if nothing gets done this time, it helps the school leadership to measure this teacher’s suitability as a pattern of inappropriate conduct.

@Coconutter24 So you don’t believe schools should have Behaviour and Sanctions policies and abide by them then? Teachers just do what they want? Where does that end?

These policies are for pupils, staff and parents in order to “sing from the same hymn sheet”. Teachers do not have licence to do as they please. Many pupils will dislike sarcastic teachers and behaviour policies should foster mutual respect. Sarcastic clapping doesn’t do this and should not be tolerated. This immature teacher doesn’t understand the behaviour and sanctions policy (probably hasn’t read it!): maybe the teacher should do as he’s asked and comply too?

Wrong thread sorry

hard agree. Also very depressing to see how some posters (many of them teachers) think of kids as liars, manipulators, etc. by default.

The kid needs to learn not to talk in class - not ideal but also perfectly normal behaviour for a kid and not worrying in any way. The teacher needs to learn that humiliating others just because you happen to have contextual power over them is never ok - that is worrying behaviour by someone in that role.

That sounds about right, reading these comments there are atleast 48 bullies on this thread!