Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

They’re getting off on it, OP. Better ignored.

He is 13,, disrupting the class and disrespecting the teacher. How about you focus your attention on him and convey to him strongly that he needs to stop arsing around? Or do you want him to think that it's fine to keep being a pest in class because Mum can be relied upon to go school and complain about it whenever he is called out?

Honestly, as the mother of two teenagers who want to learn, I am so sick of hearing about disruptive children at school and parents who won't sort them out.

But this is what she said (below). She acknowledges again that he should not have been talking while the teacher was talking but says he was not interrupting the class repeatedly.

Based on what she has said, this is correct, talking quietly to a friend in PE and not talking over the teacher is not the same as repeatedly interrupting the class.

I suppose technically, twice is "repeatedly".

But mentioning PE is absolutely relevant. It's not saying it's "just" PE, it's acknowledging the difference between having a quiet conversation with a friend while running around in games is not the same as giggling, whispering, talking while a teacher is at the front of the class teaching maths - and she's right, it's not.

It is possible she does not have the full story - but as we only have her word for it will have to discuss the version of events we have been given.

I have to dispute the "disrupting the class repeatedly".
I mean, it was a PE lesson.
They were in the gym hall.
They'd been running around playing a ball game then re-grouped whilst the teacher talked about what game they were going to play next.
Whilst teacher was talking, DS was stood right at the back of the hall with a friend. They were all stood around the hall in different areas. DS spoke to say something to his friend. The teacher was talking in a loud voice. DS was talking in a quiet voice. He said to his friend "I really like this game it's good fun, I hope I get a go in the position I did last time". He got a warning for not listening.
They played the next game then re-grouped for the teacher to talk to them again.
This time the kids stood staggered around the hall. DS was standing on his own with the same friend. No other kids were stood next to them, meaning no other kids could hear DS talking to his friend in a very quiet voice.
DS said to his friend "shall we go in the same team again" whilst the teacher was talking.
Teacher escalated things because DS was talking whilst the teacher was talking, and for a second time after having previously been told not to talk.
He should not have been talking whilst the teacher was talking.
But he was not disrupting the class repeatedly.
He spoke twice in a PE hall during games intervals whilst other students were stood around the hall.

Yep, this. Wannabe bullies who haven't got the power to actually torture anyone in real life really do get off on tormenting people on this site. Mumsnet has been single handledly responsible for me realising that humans, as a species, are truly screwed. I expected vicious trolling, bullying and outright ignoring facts, reality etc. on places like Reddit or men's wants forums - but this site is filled with average women, apparently.

Oh well. I suppose we will out evolve stupidity, cruelty and bullying one way or another. Mumsnet is a salient reminder that you should not assume average women are safe, kind, decent or honest.

But he's never had an isolation before today.
Never.
So what are you talking about?

The teacher sounds awful, and clearly this was completely the wrong approach with your DS who is shy and not generally causing any trouble. Honestly all he did was speak a couple of times, I think isolation and detention is excessive never mind the clapping which is just immature, unprofessional and inappropriate. Seems like the teacher is more concerned with his own ego and how he appears than treating the pupils fairly. The behaviour in the school must be pretty good if this kind of thing is even on their radar!

Unfortunately, recently I’ve thought the same. It used to be overall a good place with just a few like that but the balance has tipped. It’s a habit for me to be here but I’m not sure it’s healthy at this stage.

Funny that. That's not the (overall) image I have of MN at all. I see mostly good people trying to do good things, certainly much more so than any other talkboard I've ever spent time on, which is quite a few.

There seems to be a bit of confusion on this thread.
Let’s be clear, if a teacher was talking as in this case and a kid talks at the same time he is ‘talking over the teacher’ . It doesn’t matter whether he is louder than the teacher or not he is still talking over him.
The OP’s child did this twice. Decent teachers stop giving instructions when a child is talking over them. If everyone in the room was like Ops child and decided to talk twice then the teacher would have to stop their explanation/instruction giving 60 times and nothing would get done. That is the reality of life in a classroom (or gym in this case).

You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

I think there are a fair number of men on here as well. But either way you're right, lots of nasty little bullies.

Well it will make him think next time before doing it again

It sounds like a teacher issue. Lax boundaries and inappropriate conversations.

Humiliation is out of order and demonstrates it's the teacher reacting angrily in the moment and not considering his own behaviour. Hiding behind doors and pretending to shoot students is childish and utterly inappropriate.

Even if you weren't confused about what interrupting a teacher is - none of that's relevant to the reality that the teacher should not have sarcastically indulged himself in a clapping humiliation ritual.

OP has clearly stated she was on board with the punishments.

Nobody at all should be on board with the teacher having a pop at a kid using a clapping humiliation ritual.

If that's what happened, the teacher is in the wrong. Completely.

As I stated earlier - Support him by talking to him about it and why it was wrong of the teacher to do this. They have a lot of power and if he makes a fuss the teacher might bully him further. Best thing to do is act as though it didn't happen, brush it off but take careful notes.

Contemporaneous notes, written at the time are always good to keep in a bullying situation. Anything the teacher does, get your son to email YOU about it, in clear terms, stating the facts only and not feelings. That way you will have a timeline of proof of incidents. And yes, contemporaneous notes DO count in investigations and WILL carry weight.

Keep those in case they are needed, going forward.

You can tell us many good things about your DS in a drip feed but the fact remains he was talking when he wasn't supposed to be and instead of heeding the warning the teacher gave him he chose to chat to the same boy again. If he was talking so quiet how come the teacher could hear him? Hopefully your DS will learn not to talk when the teacher is talking. He showed disrespect to the teacher yet gets upset when the teacher showed disrespect back.

I think you are right. I think men lurk here, pretending to be women, and some come on just as men of course. I suppose I assume the majority are women, but who knows? Either way - it's a sad revelation.

She agreed with his punishments.

She did not agree with the sarcastic clapping ritual humiliation.

Do you?

Wrong.
The teacher has confirmed he sent DS to isolation and then to after school detention for talking twice in the PE lesson.
The teacher has confirmed DS was not doing any other behaviour. He has confirmed DS was punished for talking on 2 separate occasions within the same PE lesson.
As I have said repeatedly in this thread.
The
Teacher
Has
Confirmed
This
DS doesn't have any negative behaviour points on his record. I know this because I can see his record of negative behaviour points on his school profile app. It says zero. I can also see his positive behaviour achievement points. He gets so many of these across all his lessons that he received a gold badge in July. The school encourages parents to keep up to date with their child's negative and positive behaviour points, which is why it displays them on the pupil's profile app.
You need to find out the facts before casting your bitter aspersions.

This 100%.

You're in the right. And anyone pretending that the teacher was in the right to indulge in the humiliation clapping ritual at this point is just trolling you.

I will step out of the thread now. Good luck.

The teacher SAW him talking.

I'm not drip feeding. I'm responding to posts.

I think it's not on. There is no need for someone in a position of power to humiliate a child. The punishment was already served. It wouldn't be accepted in a place of work. Children deserve not to be humiliated for what tbh is a developmentally normal pushing of boundaries a bit in school. They do ofc need consequences.

Also the leap from a warning to a full day of isolation for chatting is wild to me. Break time or lunch detention? Sure. Isolation was reserved for far more disruptive things when I was in school!

I can't get over how many people think this is okay. Would you do it to your own child just to humiliate them after you've already given them a consequence at home? Would you find it acceptable if your manager did it at work?

If your answer is no, then check yourself, and consider why you think it's okay for someone in a position of power and authority to purposely humiliate a child.

It is easy to see the OP is upset by this. I am more disturbed by the other things they have told us about this teacher. I am assuming that this other behaviour has already been brought to the school's attention? If not, why not? Personally, I would let the clapping pass; one of those things, just get on with it. What action would the OP like as a result of approaching the school? The other things mentioned I would suggest are more significant.

Indeed, Also, surely, the scope it leaves to ongoing bullying?