Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

I would be furious. If a child doesn’t start something but finishes it they will be punished. How is it therefore okay for a teacher to humiliate a student, happily allow other students to pile on and then have people say don’t deflect from what DS did? In no way is this okay.

That's called a bollocks comparison

The teacher is responsible for the safety of the class. He might have noticed unsafe practices going on. He might have needed to change the rules. He might have had to reenforce safety notices. He might not have been doing any of that this time but needs to be harsh because PE is dangerous and kids need to respect that they don't talk when he is or they might miss something important and safe

The teacher was talking, speak to your mate once they've stopped

Teachers have to do an awful lot of training and CPD on behaviour management, mental health support, emotional regulation, conflict resolution, I could go on. Teachers are human and they do make mistakes, but no teacher anywhere would say this was any part of a good behaviour management strategy. Children come from all sorts of backgrounds, with some experiencing abuse, neglect on a regular basis. Risking humiliating them just alienates and destroys trust. Teachers know that good respectful relationships with pupils give better outcomes for all.

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Sadly OP, you have posted at the wrong time of day. All the trolls tend to be on at this time of night and like to deliberately misunderstand and rile up OPs. You could say the sky is blue and the grass is green and that lot would still find a way to flip it and drive you nuts.

Anyway, YANBU. Please speak to the school about the teacher’s behaviour. Best to nip it in the bud now at the start of the school year.

Teach your kid to behave, then you don't need to worry about stuff like this.

Do you think this incident will affect your DS's future behaviour in class?

That's very inappropriate and I'm normally one to take these things on the chin. Much as I think being a teacher must be a very hard job, I think you have to be professional enough to set an example even under pressure and that does not include ritual humiliation.

Deeply unprofessional from the teacher. It is easy to get swept up in your own frustration when teaching but that's not on.

You lose the moral high ground and respect of many pupils. They have let themselves down.

The teacher was in the wrong to do this, sounds like they do not like your son and this was a case of using their power to humiliate him, which is bullying.

Support him by talking to him about it and why it was wrong of the teacher to do this. They have a lot of power and if he makes a fuss she might bully him further. Best thing to do is act as though it didn't happen, brush it off but take careful notes.

Contemporaneous notes, written at the time are always good to keep in a bullying situation. Anything the teacher does, get your son to email YOU about it, in clear terms, stating the facts only and not feelings. That way you will have a timeline of proof of incidents. And yes, contemporaneous notes DO count in investigations and WILL carry weight.

Keep those in case they are needed, going forward.

I think also it teaches your son that figures of authority are not to be respected, but of course that may be the only good thing about it, depending on how he takes it.

I’d take what your son told you about what he said with a very big pinch of salt… teachers don’t react like that to nice quiet kids who don’t cause trouble

Tbf the teacher was lucky he had OP’s son and not one of our SEMH kids. Something like that would’ve caused a much bigger (possibly violent) disruption and a shitton of paperwork.

Really surprised by the poll and some of the responses on this thread.

Of course your DS shouldn’t have been talking but the punishment sounds OTT and the clapping is humiliating and weird. YANBU and I would say something to the school

Some teachers are vicious, bullying arseholes. This may not be the case here, but it is not possible to say "teachers don't react like that to nice quiet kids who don't cause trouble". People of all temperaments and types wind up in teaching.

It is possible there is more to it than the OP knows, and she should be mindful of that. But it is factually incorrect to say it is impossible the teacher is just an unpleasant bully.

This . I can’t imagine any child in that class trusting this teacher enough to make a disclosure about something .

And? OP has said NUMEROUS TIMES that she doesn't disagree with the punishments that were within the behaviour policy (i.e. the detention and isolation). She is unhappy about the teacher leading the class in a sarcastic slow clap of her child. It was humiliating, unnecessary and unprofessional. If another student did it, they would (or certainly should) be punished. The fact that it was a teacher makes it worse, not better.

That's irrelevant to the point that OP was minimising his behaviour

Oh they certainly do. Most teachers are lovely, the vast majority are professional regardless, but like in every profession there are a few bad apples for sure.

Ex teacher here. That teacher doesn’t like your son. Does he have good reason? Sometimes teachers snap and their true feelings rise to the surface. Is your son a constant pain in the arse? Maybe interrogate a bit more closely what is actually going on here?

Having said that, the sarcastic clapping is not acceptable. And allowing the class to join in is totally wrong.

I’d find out from my DS what is actually happening and then perhaps approach the teacher to discuss what he is thinking. I wouldn’t go in guns blazing, rather look for a moving on resolution. If you’re aggressive, he will just resort to referring to the initial misbehaviours.

Except, she was not.

"I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention."

As a retired teacher,I find the teacher's beha your totally unacceptable. The punishment seems excessive if he was talking only twice. And the clapping and allowing the other pupils to join in is wrong at all levels.
But I have a niggle at the back of my mind. Maybe your son is constantly chattering and on this occasion the teacher had enough. I would like to hear what the teacher had to say.
But based on the facts you have given ,the teacher overreacted totally.

I agree it’s a bollocks comparison, the teacher (left ball) did exactly the same as what the student (right ball) did our imaginary scenarios. Both my and your fictional embellishments add up to a complete pair of bollocks.

Not defending the teacher but seriously your son needs to learn to cope with this - there will be far worse things that happen in life.

To answer you about what is this teacher like.
He's 24 years old, which he likes to tell his class regularly.
When I met him at parents' evening, he said "innit" a lot at the end of his sentences whilst talking to me.
Whilst I was speaking to him at the above evening, he sat in his chair leaning back, slumped halfway down the chair, bum on the tip of his seat, one foot resting on his opposite knee with legs wide open, with one hand behind his head, and the other hand holding a biro that he was chewing on throughout our conversation.
He talks a lot to the children about how he spent 4 years working at McDonald's and tells them that he preferred that job to teaching.
He does things like hides behind doors in the school corridor with his hands clasped together to mimic the shape of a gun and then pretends to fire bullets at students as they walk along to their lessons, including at a student with known severe autism who really struggles at school and who had a major meltdown in response to this.
Adding to the list today's conduct of pupil humiliation, all in all, I'd say he's a great teacher.

Bloody hell, I know schools are desperate for teachers but there should be some standards!