...to ask if I am I being a prude about these outfits?

[bellav]

My 11yo DD has taken a liking to K-Pop recently, but I am concerned about some of the outfits and dancing styles, especially as some of the singers are very young.

It feels to me like they are being exploited and sexualised at such a young age, but I am unsure how to go about discussing this with my daughter.

Am I just being a prude and showing my age here?!

Link to some of the worst offenders:

https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/15-extremely-revealing-stage-outfits-banned/

yes.. and all that stuff about Beyoncé’s husband and her being sooo close to P Diddy the rohypnol dude, it’s all really suss.

When I was 10 I loved the band Bow Wow Wow - the lead singer appears naked on an album cover. I was oblivious to any of this, I just thought she was very cool. She was 14! This was in 1982. Over sexualisation of young women in the music industry (often by male managers) is nothing new unfortunately.

I'm a big kpop fan, these groups are old, many have now disbanded and the performances referenced are from some time ago. For example the one from Girls Generation, those women are now in their 30's.

While there is still risqué styling I'd say it's less so than before and more for groups where the members are 20+. Especially if you look at the styling of new groups where many members are younger like ILLIT, New Jeans or IVE, these are some Stage outfits from one of the younger groups.

I don't think you need to be worried, as others have said, Britney was in a school uniform from 14 or something

I think that's the description used when men express an interest in them.

Not sure we can have it both ways

And i have long shared OPs concern

It doesn't feel like empowerment to have to accompany your music with minimal clothing. It feels more like exploitation to me.

Britney in her school uniform
Madonna is stockings and suspenders - no one I knew was scandalised by the bras and I am 51!

The words in relax by FGTH
Sam Fox!
The Bangles (susannah hoff!)
Even Tina Turner was milling about in a teeny tiny dresses with massive heels!
Cher in her see through outfits

This is nothing new!! Have a conversation if you think that will achieve anything but she will grow out of it soon enough.

Meh. It’s really nothing new and while people have always been scandalised by the music scene of generations who come after them, it’s never really that big of a deal.

I’m in my 30s so for me it was Britney, Christina, hip hop videos. My younger sister it was The Pussycat Dolls and my teenage daughter it’s Sabrina Carpenter (she’s not into K-pop). Each time my dad has had the same response “they need to put some clothes on, can see what they had for breakfast” etc.

It's definitely creepy OP, and worrying to navigate with a young daughter. It's much more extreme than what Britney/Madonna etc were doing.

Your question reminds me of a Caitlin Moran column in the Times where she wrote about discussing Rhianna's outfits and dance moves with her young daughters. It's here in case it's got any useful tips - behind a paywall though. https://www.thetimes.com/sunday-times-rich-list/profile/article/why-rihanna-could-do-with-a-nice-cardie-g3p0tv0n7sn

FWIW I don't think kids register the sexualised elements in the same way adults do - I was a bit horrified watching Sabrina Carpenter sing Bed Chem with my 12 YO niece but when I commented on it to open a conversation she explained to me that it's not about sex, it's just about her having a sleepover with her friends.

People will tell you it’s normal, because it’s been widespread for a few decades. We’ve also been normalised accepting extreme dress and dance as a way of being inclusive and tolerant. However plenty of us don’t think it’s really acceptable and want an alternative, and to normalise healthy boundaries and self respect.

If we don’t want the backlash (trad wife, etc) then this other extreme must also be tampered down to a reasonable level.

There must be other great female artists who are great but don’t dance/dress like this…maybe find them and redirect your daughter.

There's been very young women and girls doing sexy dances for ever in the pop world but I think that wearing school uniform type costumes should be frowned on.

I'm 60 and my mum was a Madonna fan. Mind you she was in her 20s when she came out so not aimed at tweens.

Wear dance shorts underneath ? & hope for cold weather
no suggestion on the dance moves tho 🤷‍♀️

I agree. I remember watching Grease when I was quite young, about 12, and it was just a fun movie. Watched it in my late 30s and realized just how adult it actually was.

Christ.

There's nowt left to the imagination with those outfits is there? I wouldn't be having that either. It doesn't matter that young women have been performing like that since forever, what matters is that we stop sexualising them. When she's 18, she can wear what she's wants. Until then, you're the one who makes the decisions. Simple as.

Difference with Madonna is that she wasn’t pushed into looking a certain way, it was her choice and she was feisty as hell with it. These young K-Pops are told what to wear and how to act, it’s creepy

Good for you for caring enough to check out what they are watching or want to watch.

Have you seen Christina Aguilaras “Dirrrty” outfit? I was about 12 when that came out and I didn’t need my mum to sit me down and chat with me about it.
I really don’t think any of these are more extreme than what we grew up with. Maybe they just are through your eyes as you now hve young daughters and feel a need to protect them?

But presenting themselves as younger. Honestly, I feel there's some nasty paedo vibes about K-pop.

Yeah and we used to send children up chimneys and down pits as well, things move on - we call it progress.

For clarity YANBU.

@bellav maybe show your kid some J-Pop instead of K-Pop

I am not talking about idols who unfortunately are also in the cutesy and exploitative area, but I am thinking about Ado, Yoasobi, Yorushika who really don't go for super sexy and are great for my kids

You're not unreasonable to worry about it and you're not being a prude, but it is unrealistic to expect your 11 year old to register anything wrong with the vibe or to understand the sewers that run through some watchers' heads. Make sure she's sticking with her posse and steer her towards more restrained versions of whatever they're up to, and share any cautionary tales about social media abuse with her when they're in the headlines.

When I was eleven we were fed Pan's People, probably dancing to Gary Glitter: look back at what they were doing and cringe. We thought it was cool. [Although nobody - NOBODY - didn't instinctively twig that Jimmy Savile was a wrong'un.]

Does anyone remember legs and co?

This was tea time family viewing in the 70s and 80s Dance outfits are often revealing, it's fine

I just looked at these and honestly they seem tame compared to what out own singers wear. I don't like it, especially when they have their arse cheeks hanging out. Look at Little Mix, Ariane Grande, Lady GaGa etc, to name but a few. But what can we do about it? Sex sells, apparently. I would like to see Chris Martin, The Gallagher's, Bruno Mars etc performing in their scanties for a bit of balance.

Tale as old as time. Yes young women get paid lots of money to be sexual objects for men mostly but also for people in general. Teenage girls want to be like them, dress like them, look like them because that’s what they like about them most of the time.

If I were you I would have an honest discussion with your child just be prepared for it to go in one ear and out the other 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wouldn't it's bad enough hearing that nasal whining Mancunian voice in the first place.

Christina Aguilera's Dirty Video 2002 (when I was 13)

Britney Spears Baby One More Time video (when I was 11)