...to ask if I am I being a prude about these outfits?

[bellav]

My 11yo DD has taken a liking to K-Pop recently, but I am concerned about some of the outfits and dancing styles, especially as some of the singers are very young.

It feels to me like they are being exploited and sexualised at such a young age, but I am unsure how to go about discussing this with my daughter.

Am I just being a prude and showing my age here?!

Link to some of the worst offenders:

https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/15-extremely-revealing-stage-outfits-banned/

I wasn't even born, but it's true that singers were dressing so much more demurely in the 60s-70s

Today's fashion is shocking.

Not sure why it's a problem to parent and tell your kid she's too young to dress like a (young) adult?

In Korea it certainly is. Adult men are big fans of girl groups. Don’t think that the global audience is the primary target.

Pop singers trying to shock older generations is as old as time!

I used to love the Mini Pops when I was about 7 and they were six year olds cavorting in lingerie Sheena Easton's Morning Train - and we all thought that was okay at the time....

I’m personally more concerned about them posting reels on social media really. There’s not much we can do about their influences as they get older than early teens, so I’d probably talk to her about that rather than the actual clothes/moves.

I don’t think you are wrong @bellavYes, this has been going on for years if you look at Madonna and Britney Spears etc. But it does seem to be more widespread now. More revealing. More boundaries pushed. Sabrina Carpenter springs to mind as does Charlie XCX.

You can’t stop it nor fight it. But you can and should have conversations with your DD about how young women are portrayed in the media. Whether you start those conversations now or wait a little while is a tricky one.

Brittany Spears was not exactly treated well though (dressing very sexy as a teenager but then also being publicly castigated on TV after Justin Timberlake revealed the fact she was no longer a virgin. Uurgh).

I suspect that in 10/20 years time there will be all sorts of stories about exploitation in the K-pop world to come out. In the meantime though I wouldn't stop her from watching the videos/dances necessarily. I grew up with e.g. Brittany Spears hit me one more time, as one of the most popular videos to emulate in our school. Largely because we also had school uniforms so were already in costume. Which was fun. Also just, we liked that music. The fact that that video was very much also targeted at older men who were seeing it in a very different way is really icky in hindsight. But our enjoyment of it was for completely different reasons
The fact is, a lot of pop videos are and always have been targeted to both a young female audience and an older male audience. That is really gross and uncomfortable but I still wouldn't stop your daughter enjoying the music. Because I do think the tastes of young girls and teenage girls are already looked down on in a way that other demographics aren't. But young women are just as creative and just as passionate about their interests as young men. So making her feel as though her interests are automatically suspect/overridden by the fact that other people like the same bands for different reasons feels wrong to me.

I certainly remember Legs&co having to dance on TOTP to a pre recorded track if a singer/group wasn’t on the show. But I do remember that the dancers were women who looked like adult women. There is a difference between that and some groups today where young women look much younger than their age but dress and dance in certain ways. Yes, it has always happened but with the surge of social media, it is far more accessible and mainstream.

First of all, you've shared an article that highlights those outfits as being 'so revealing they were almost banned' - so the most extreme examples possible from an entire genre of music, which is a pretty broad one and - in this country anyway - much better known for boy bands.

Secondly, that article just shows short GIFs that snapshot a couple of seconds from each dance routine, so yeah, of course some of those movements are suggestive, but in the context of a full routine, it won't be anywhere near as bothersome - much like a film that has one swear word in it can still be rated a PG.

Thirdly, this is a not a new phenomenon and not limited to K-pop. I'm 49 and grew up with Madonna performing in underwear, singing 'Like A Virgin', and Michael Jackson grabbing his crotch on stage repeatedly. My 20s was Britney in school uniform and PVC catsuits and Christina Aguilera wearing chaps and bikini briefs. My go-to outfit for going to gigs when I was sixth-form age was denim hot pants, and a black Wonderbra under a see-through chiffon top or a 'dress' that was literally a satin slip nightie, and nobody thought that was in the slightest bit unusual.

It's not that I don't see your concerns - I do. But ultimately, your daughter is probably a lot smarter than you think in terms of the impression this sort of thing will actually make on her, and you can't shelter her from pop music. It is what it is.

i think the one that shocked me most was when Eric Prydze brought out call on me back in 2004... I just thought eh... that can't be right, they can't be thrusting like that on TV.

There was the likes of Frankie goes to Hollywood which was banned way back whenever.

It's definitely not a new thing.

I agree with you OP. I just think it’s sad that (a lot of) female artists can’t just rely on their voices. Young girls often want to emulate the ‘dancing’ and highly sexualised outfits, which can make a parent’s life difficult.

There was the song the very popular Serge Gainsbourg wrote about fellatio for an unsuspecting (and very talented) 18 year old singer
Gall had said that she did not understand the song's subtext when she recorded it at age 18.[5] By Gall's account, she did not realize until later why the filming of the clip attracted so many visitors to the set.[2] She was then upset – "mortified, hiding herself away for weeks, refusing to face anyone".[6] Gall said that she had sung Gainsbourg's songs "with an innocence of which I'm proud" and "was pained to then learn that he had turned the situation to his advantage, mocking me."[6] In a 2001 television interview, Gall said that she had felt "betrayed by the adults around me" afterwards.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_sucettes

Also, an acceptance of underage female groupies not just within the 70s rock star milieu but also Elvis Presley's rather dodgy relationships.

So I don't think the music industry was squeaky clean then.

Yes, I remember! 😲 But they were actually grown ups!

My daughter likes K-pop, but she’s much older age 19. She likes the music. However, she does not dress like that at all. It is jeans and baggy hoodies all the time.

We often discuss why women are dressed like that and not the men. We also discuss how much of it is genuine free choice and how much is rooted in misogyny and societal expectations. Perhaps you could talk to your daughter in a similar but age-appropriate way?

They can’t just rely on their voices because most of the time they just aren’t that talented. Their youthful bodies are all they have to offer.

I didn't click on the link but it will be the most extreme examples. Also the link itself is clickbait. "Most shocking outfits" is designed to appeal in the same way those pop ups.saying "top ten wardrobe malfunctions" are. The principle target audience being grimy men.

So yes it is uncomfortable. I might have a conversation with your daughter if she started wanting to emulate the more risque outfits but I wouldn't stop her enjoying the music.

Uhh Britney did Hit Me Baby One More Time when she was 16, didn’t she?

Nothing has changed.

It’s not a K-pop issue, it’s everywhere. Have you seen Sabrina carpenter?!

its also not a new issue, as long as I can remember it’s been the same- styles change but women being treated as objects is ingrained in our societies (anyone recall Raquel Welch and her fur bikini, Jamie Lee Curtis’ leotard and thrusting?)

You’d be better off talking to your dd about her own boundaries, respect and consent away from judgement of performers.

They are extremely talented and hard working! The music industry in general is incredibly competitive and K-pop takes that to a whole other level. Just to get accepted involves a very competitive audition and then there are years of very rigorous training usually in large camps away from home where there basically spend every waking moment practicing singing, dancing etc. within this very competitive environment it's expected that only a handful will actually graduate to being stars. it is incredibly extreme, and ripe for exploitation. But it is completely unfair to say "their youthful bodies are all they have to offer"

There is something wrong with a system that requires talented young women (and men too actually) to cater to a sexualised male gaze as part of the deal they make to be performers. It's worse when, because of this necessity, they then get dismissed as untalented/only a body.

it was mainstream music so it was aimed at a general audience, like lots of dance music is.

but if you look at woman like beyonce and videos from a lot of american stars like Nicki Minaj, Cardi B etc. they all dress like hookers and the videos are all sexualised - lets not start on the lyrics... save that for another thread.

I suspect that in 10/20 years time there will be all sorts of stories about exploitation in the K-pop world to come out.

It's already well known K Pop is extremely exploitative....

Film them from the waist up as Happened with Elvis in the 1950s.👍🤣🤣🤣

There might be a bit of cultural differences at play here. I watched a lot of Korean stuff during the lockdowns (their variety shows are quite fun) and short skirts aren’t seen as inappropriate if I recall correctly, only cleavages.

Like others have said it’s nothing new. But honestly it wasn’t right then and it isn’t right now. It’s selling sex and it’s directed at children.
Maybe our mums should have had an ‘earnest’ talk with us. I don’t know how it would have landed tbh but I think you sound like a very conscientious mum and I would encourage you to open the line of communication here with your daughter.

Male singers have never danced "inappropriately" or dressed in a sexual way....

Spot on! Just because it happened in the past doesn’t make it ok.