Which country will you move to if Reform win next election?

[Krenonges]

Faced with the prospect of NHS being sold off, ICE-style immigration raids and deportations, emboldened bigots, changes to the school curriculum, public services dessimated, leaving EHCR, I honestly think I'll have no choice but to leave. I don't want to but I couldn't bring DC up in fascist state.

Luckily my DH, DC and I are all dual nationals of an EU country so we have an escape route if needed and this country goes to the dogs.

Where would you go?

And what do the Germans think of this?
All it will do is hold down salaries across the engineering sector.
Same as the huge influx of Indian IT migrants have done in the UK and US.
Same as the huge influx of cheap Eastern European builders did for bricklaying etc in the UK.

You’d be absolutely mad to move to France. Cheap wine and lovely food

Lovely food?

I have friends with a house in France and were there for 3 months this summer. They said it's all pizzas and burgers now.......

I don't think the Indians are cheap labour. They fill a skills gap. Salaries in India are high these days.
It's no longer a struggling economy.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-takes-steps-to-attract-skilled-indian-workers/a-70517896

Politicians will always exploit concerns and sentiments. It's how they get into and stay in their jobs.

Left-wing parties and left-wing media weaponise racism and exploit minorities for their benefit. They enjoy ramping up hysteria as if the moment you step out of your house you're going to be lynched by neo-Nazis, when the reality is that for many people of ethnic minority heritage, life in the UK is great, and most people you meet will treat you with politeness and respect.

Jenrick and almost all the other Conservative MPs do get a lot of flak, at least online. People constantly tell them that the Tories had 14 years to sort out immigration and other issues and instead it got worse. Which is why they are planning to vote Reform. And lots of people are pissed off at seeing Conservative MPs defect to Reform because they claim it will end up as Tory Part II with all the same useless people and non-conservative politicians.

Actual ethno nationalists hate Reform and Tommy Robinson, Musk etc. They think they are sellouts.

Most voters are pragmatic. If people are happy to keep voting Labour even though the party turned a blind eye to grooming gangs in exchange for votes, then plenty of people can pragmatically decide to vote for Reform irrespective of what is spouted by its politicians or billionaires.

Many left-wing people are happy to turn a blind eye to billionaires when there's money poured into the ideological causes that they support.

What I mean is that it gets told as a story about how tolerant and open-minded we are, and of migrants being kind enough to help us out (when the feckless British won’t do it themselves).

But you could equally tell it as a story about refusing to pay fair wages for the local economy, stripping skilled staff from poor countries, and building a workhouse to put them in.

The best guys get a good salary, the churned out dross get about 25 to 30% of an EU salary.
Case in point, my IT colleague, Indian National, short term (2 year assignment) gets 40% of my salary, but 200% of his offshore colleagues.
It’s cheaper in labour for the West.

What I mean is that Denmark is pretty normal, it’s our laxity/generosity which is extreme. We think about our recent policy as normality, when by any historical comparison it would be unfathomable.

I can't leave but always liked the way Scandinavian countries do things.

It's not ok to make personal assumptions about me, or to claim that I favour white migrants over non white.
Your personal assessment of me is wide of the mark, and ironic, if you only knew!
I think it's best if it's left at that.

Sometimes.
But we don't have enough taxpayers. Or skills in many sectors. And an aging population plus a large proportion of NEETS.
It will be interesting to see how Europe solves this problem.

Ok, mate.

I've heard a number of people liking the idea of a fresh start/ a change, but no one who will actually vote for them..

Your explanation of the left weaponising racism seems hysterical, ironically.
Surveys show that at least a third of ethnic minorities in the UK have experienced racism; perhaps that’s what you mean by ‘most’ being treated with respect, so maybe you’re ok with - those figure are unacceptable to me,
The grooming gangs victims were and have been failed by many across the political spectrum, and they continue to be now as they’re exploited for political point-scoring.
Obviously, all parties are strategic in targeting key areas of concerns and yes, all are in receipt of donations - the distinct difference is in that Musk owns a large social media platform and claiming that ‘civil war is inevitable’ ; GB News has Reform MPs on the payroll and you know that the right-wing MSM dominates - that’s why you acknowledge that Jenrick and his ilk get flak ‘at least online.’
I’ll leave it there.

Ha ha, no one who will admit to be thinking of voting for them. For fear of being bullied as ‘ thick gammon’.

What's racist about wanting a society free of crime, hatred and division.

The mass importation of metaphorical shite is what drives this hate, I walk around my local town centre now and it's awash with theft, drug addiction and money laundering. It doesn't take a genius to find the common denominator, they all originate from the same geographical location.

If you come here, gain citizenship, learn the language and work a job that contributes taxes and national insurance, you're adding value to the economy, you're welcomed with open arms.

If your prerogative is to catch a free ride, being gifted hand outs whilst contributing nothing and posing a threat to the rest of us (including legal migrants) who contribute to society, you can politely FO.

If you're so pro welcoming any old shit, put them up in your house.

I am not in favour of mass, uncontrolled immigration. I expect we will need some immigration to prop up the NHS and universities, fill skill gaps, and care for an aging, obese population.

It's going to be very difficult to figure out what we need and how to get it. It's a very delicate balance and not as easily solved as Reform seems to think, IMHO.

It's not racist to want a society free of crime (if maybe a tad unrealistic)
It is racist to imply that all the crime is down to people from "the same geographical location". That is a racialist/xenophobic analysis of it the problem. Even if it were correct (I don't think you are) it would be.
One of my male relatives would hang around the town centre dropping litter, spitting at people as they went past. And would disturb our house late at night ranting and raving. He also dealt drugs. He was white and as British as they come. Even if you got rid of all the immigrants you would still have people like him. Also, I hate to break it to you but the majority of Epstein's friends were white, and there is a lot of drug taking happens in the house of commons.

The first and last paragraphs you wrote weren't racist they were "common sense" that most people would agree with. It's hard to disagree with really. The middle part referring to "the mass importation of metaphorical shite" was racist. You know it was. It is a clever rhetorical divorce to put the extreme statement between two reasonable ones so that when people disagree they look as though they are disagreeing with completely mainstream opinions.

You are an intelligent individual, you are right and I respect your comment.

These are fair points that I will definitely take on board.

Especially if you take yourself to seriously then I think it's best you do leave it there.

The racism is blaming all of the crime, hatred and division in your area on immigrants - and the idea that society would be ‘free’ from those things if they weren’t there. I could try to explain why ‘import the third world, get the third world’ is so loaded and offensive, but I think it would be a waste of my time.

I hope all the pp who were claiming people make too many assumptions have read your comments and recognise what people are concerned about.

Of course I object to being told that I favour white migrants over non white. It's offensive, so yes, I take it very seriously.
End of our conversation, you've made claims against me and been personal. It needs to stop.

You should have read my post properly before tagging me then there would have been no confusion. I don't think you are that silly and knew what I meant from the beginning. That's why you are so outraged and chose not to include my full post. You claiming the UK should not be blamed when it was greed that put us there in the first place. Let's ignore that fact.

I said it was complex.
You failed to read my posts.
You just got personal.
Not good. Leave it there.

I’m wondering why people who would run from Reform, or oppose Rwanda, would choose a country that uses alternative country and turn backs as they do. Why is it ok there but not here?

Ask one of those people.