Which country will you move to if Reform win next election?

[Krenonges]

Faced with the prospect of NHS being sold off, ICE-style immigration raids and deportations, emboldened bigots, changes to the school curriculum, public services dessimated, leaving EHCR, I honestly think I'll have no choice but to leave. I don't want to but I couldn't bring DC up in fascist state.

Luckily my DH, DC and I are all dual nationals of an EU country so we have an escape route if needed and this country goes to the dogs.

Where would you go?

We don’t have the same system at all. Have you heard of Nauru, turn backs and operation sovereign borders?

You are ok with it there but would you be the ok with the same here?

If we stayed out of Afghanistan their citizen's wouldn't be voting for the far right. It's as if they want their cake and eat it but not clean up after. I think that's a good analogy to use. If we had nothing to gain from Afghanistan then we wouldn't have gone in to their country. We should keep ourselves out of people's country if you don't want to help them after disabling them.

No one had any issues when the Ukrainians needed a place to go. Wait sorry they're white.

@ClareBlue you do not know that Farage wouldn’t indeed take us in the Hungary direction. He isn’t in power ,I doubt Hitler said ‘oh by the way I will be gassing and silencing anyone who doesn’t think like me’ at the point of election . We lived in Denmark for 20 months ( Copenhagen) it is actually proof that you can be a liberal society but with tight immigration policies from immigrants from outside the EU . You cannot though compare , it’s a high tax, high standards place and it kind of expects everyone to work and contribute, even with young children - some people will like it, we did, but lots would hate it - it simply doesn’t tolerate shitty behaviour, doesn’t matter if you are an MP or the kind of guy that goes round pissing in the street or throwing litter down - and it has no tolerance whatsoever with the ‘bit of cash in hand work’ and blokes in particular are really expected to do their bit domestically - so many Reform voters, particularly male I think would find it quite ‘controlling’ in lots of ways - they would approve of the immigration policies but little else - I do agree that nowhere is perfect and I think that’s half the problem, a lot of people want policies specifically tailored ‘to them’ - no benefits but oh I quite like my PIP, attendance allowance, top up when I’m out of work for a bit - no putting up with the work shy, apart from if that’s me wanting 4 months off at some point or skiving off to go to an England match - and it applies to the Telegraph reform type GB News watchers too - disgraceful that my mother can’t get an over 55 rented assisted living flat but god forbid they touch my £600k equity at any point or consider my £1 million pension fund part of my assets .

The situation in Afghanistan @Falseknock was, and is, immensely complex. It is something of a reach to suggest that British involvement has somehow lead to the Islamist rule which we see oppressing women to a truly horrific degree. The whole rise of Islamism followed the Iranian Revolution, amongst other factors.
I think there are few nations in the world which have not, at some point, been occupied or controlled by another.
I don't see the point in just blaming the UK without considering other factors.

We can't afford to have the same system 3.8 million people 30 and under are claiming PIP for mental health. Our young men and women are not having children. My next door neighbour both 28 own a 3 bedroom house and they own a dog. They dog sit a friend's dog and have sleep overs. We need people working and having families so they can contribute in the future. The king is head of the commonwealth you cannot stop people coming to the motherland from commonwealth countries.

I am not blaming the UK the problem is after all of that you don't want them here. You was fine with the Ukrainians coming here but not the Afghans.

I sometimes look at posters on Mumsnet and genuinely wonder how they are so naive at about the world. They seem to source their information about it from the school gates/their insular Facebook group and a 2week holiday in Provence buying fresh local bread.

Europe, Australia and N America are fed up of immigration from people who are unable/unwilling to integrate. They are fed up of the problems the culture clashes are creating and many people feel under siege. They are increasingly saying “No more” along with this comes the rise of the far right as they are the ones who are addessing this problem - and it is a major issue for the future of western society.

It is not just the people coming in on the boats. It is also non- integrated 2nd and 3rd generation. The problem isn’t migrants, it’s people who want to change rather than integrate into our society. Undocumented migrants are the easiest group to identify and address.

Some migrant groups eg the Windrush generation have integrated amazingly into our society and most people. Would agree they have been treated appallingly and should be compensated.

The largely Hindu group expelled by Idi Amin have generally integrated well.

Both groups were managed as bd relatively small numbers.

The problem is unmanaged immigration from cultures who don’t seem to understand the need to adapt and seem to want to take our hard won freedoms for granted only where they suit.

The West needs to work towards helping local populations solve the problems in their own countries so people don’t need to flee.

What?! I never ever said that.
Kindly retract that.

You need to read my original post properly because I don't know what you mean. The reason why we was in Afghanistan is because of greed. They have opium and heroin.

I am waiting for an apology and a retraction of your wild accusation to me,that I am happy for Ukrainians to come, but not Afghans.
Kindly do so.

We do both allow people to claim asylum. I have huge issues with the Manus island system in practice but not with the concept of offshore processing of those seeking refuge.

How many more strawmen do you wish to erect?

Germany is actively wooing Indian engineers and inviting them to move there. So are other countries. Competition has begun for tax paying talent.

'Third world' is a very outdated term.

That's the problem you don't want a discussion. You are fine where you are. You accused me of blaming the UK. Clearly you don't understand what it was I was talking about.

As if there really is going to be a mass exodus if Reform do win.

No. The problem is that you have accused me of racism.
I'm waiting for an apology.

You can just answer direct questions on whether you’d like the same or not, I haven’t said you want ‘open borders’ or a lot of the things you’re posting back.

When you say ‘off shoring processing’ do you mean you’d have an Australian system where they do not get entry or just to process and then allow entry?

I’m wondering why people who would run from Reform, or oppose Rwanda, would choose a country that uses alternative country and turn backs as they do. Why is it ok there but not here?

There was no permission granted from the electorate for mass third world immigration and it has been an unmitigated disaster for most British people. It was inevitable there would be a huge backlash, which I believe we are seeing the beginnings off now. Reform might not be right on everything, but this needs putting right.

But it is all about intergration - people moving from one European Country to another, are more likely to be able to successfully integrate as they have culture built on similar foundations People from Ukraine are therefore unlikely to cause any significant cultural disruption The movement of people from Ukraine was carefully managed. We know who is here.

The challenges we face are also being experienced worldwide to varying degrees. The UK has a lot going for it. Generations before us have seen through invasions and world wars. We've never had so much access to resources and skills. We just need to be more positive, resilient and proactive and stop talking ourselves down as a nation.

The problem is everyone who looks different will be in one bucket now, thanks to all the dogwhistling. Including skilled workers.

Yes.

It wasn't personal against you but that is what is happening right now in this country. Who do you think deserves an apology you or the immigrants who are being terrorised by the far right?
I was accused of racism on here during the Brexit discussions. I gave my argument why we should remain and then I left.

‘Import the third world, get the third world’ - and there it is. Definitely not racist though, eh? All just ordinary, decent people concerned about immigration…just free speech champions saying what everyone thinks and showing those British Christian values. I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I’m a naive left-winger making assumptions, but this is what we’re talking about it. So to the right wing posters - whether that’s Reform or Tory (not much to choose between Farage and Jenrick), what are you doing about this type of outlook that definitely does exist?
And it’s people like you @Sundaymorningcalla that are bringing this country to the dogs - your nationality doesn’t trump that.