Which country will you move to if Reform win next election?

[Krenonges]

Faced with the prospect of NHS being sold off, ICE-style immigration raids and deportations, emboldened bigots, changes to the school curriculum, public services dessimated, leaving EHCR, I honestly think I'll have no choice but to leave. I don't want to but I couldn't bring DC up in fascist state.

Luckily my DH, DC and I are all dual nationals of an EU country so we have an escape route if needed and this country goes to the dogs.

Where would you go?

But if you are established in EU, with an EU passport, you can move easily to another 25 countries. and Germany at the moment has the industry the teen is looking at in terms of employment.

And would have work for H, with his EU dual, and he can speak German so an easier initial move.

It's about what you are able to do as much as options and sometimes you need to take one step first. Then go from there.

Well actually they can. You won’t have an NHS for starters and there will be race wars. Anyone on a disability benefit will be impacted.
The r ape on the British Sikh girl by racists telling her to go back to her country while they were sexually assaulting her is not going to stop, more will happen. But as you say you’re alright with an inherently racist party getting in because you love this country.

I'm ready for dull. And safety.
UK under Reform will be neither of those things. If they manage to remove the immigrants, they will go after someone else next.

Was it at the top of the list of priorities? Or a suggestion in amongst many other more important stuff?

Australia. Applying for passport as we speak.

Nowhere would have me. I have no qualifications and my family is white British several generations.

I sadly expect they'll get in and I'll have to live in an estate full of turkeys who voted for Xmas.

I don't think anyone here has named a country that asylum seekers would not be happy to live in.
Immigrants might be looking for somewhere they speak the language, depending on their level of skills and whether they need to work.

Did you think the UK was the only country immigrants are trying to enter?

Wow, I may have to look into a move north 😁

Some would argue there needs to be huge reforms for the NHS to continue. Why stick with something that’s already broken? It’s really not fit for purpose. I keep seeing the rape of the sheikh girl mentioned, but no other racially motivated rapes of POC. Obviously one is one too many, but when put into context of recent multiple sexual attacks by incoming migrants, it’s like people are jumping on this one incident and trying to convince people it’s going to increase and be equally as big a problem as migrant sexual attacks. No evidence of this. If Reform get in, blame Labour and the Tories. Just like the Democrats allowed Trump to get in, the same is happening here. People should be focussing on lobbying Labour to get their shit together rather than focussing on Reform getting into power..

I'd stay for a bit to see if things actually improved and they actually reduced crime.

Social media is making people mentally ill. OP, I suggest you come off line for a bit and spend time walking around your town and engaging with the locals. How many are spewing hatred?

Turn off the net and stop watching rolling news on the telly. Live life like we used to years ago. Even if Reform get in (they won't, it will be a Tory government again) you will be fine.

Immigration has both increased and changed significantly because of Brexit and under the previous Tory government. The idea that the key architects of Brexit (including Farage) and defected/rejected Tories from the last government (e.g. former Conservative deputy chairman Lee Anderson) who were responsible are now offering populist solutions to immigration that people are happily swallowing unchallenged is mind-blowing.

When Reform speak of mass deportations, returning female asylum seekers to the Taliban, etc., just think what the reality of that will look like. Concerns about immigration should not be dismissed, but there has to be other, more humane ways. The actions and impact of ICE in the US is horrifying and it is certainly not improving either the economy or the quality of life for average Americans.

I think I’d counter the accusations of hysteria with suggestion that many are also worried that we’re sleepwalking into something similar to what is happening in the US. There’ll be people who will celebrate this, of course and for everyone else, some caution is advisable - the flippancy is concerning. If you’re angry at the status quo and the other main parties, then independents did well at the last election.

The other worry is that Reform will continue to move further and further to the right when challenged by other right wing groups (UKIP, Homeland, Lowe, Habib, etc.) and we will see them take a more Trump-like approach - Farage has already been making references to abortion rights, etc.

I’ll be happy in this country as I’ll be voting for them.

You’ve got to look at long run factors like social media, environmental change, wars in so many countries too. Brexit certainly a factor but doesn’t explain the same anti immigration theme across many countries.

Increasingly the case that people are looking to Reform. Different people across different social classes. They can’t all be wrong. Maybe you’re missing something and shouldn’t be accusing people of being far right. Maybe Reform is being used as a protest vote, because Labour are so crap. We honestly can’t have another term of these incompetents. The party’s falling apart in plain sight.

No we don't, that's the domain of the bams and thickos.

Very true. I'm just making the point. Nowhere is paradise. You've obviously got your eyes open, you know the political and social turmoil all over Europe, many on here just see it as a haven.

Already moved to Ireland.

Luckily prior to Brexit when the £ was still strong and we could afford a 5 bed detached house with 2 acres after selling our 3 bed in the UK. House prices here have increased since then though.

You’ll get a full medical card if you’re in receipt of a UK state pension and where I live you can still see a GP same day appt. My GP is a woman and absolutely lovely.

Lovely community and lots of friends.

We have 3 possible options where we would definitely be able to go. None of them are perfect but all would be better than sticking around to watch the Reform shitshow unfold. It will depend a bit on caring responsibilities though...I have elderly relative who couldn't come with us and who I couldn't leave behind.

Erm, they can all be wrong, and they are!

Germans increasingly looked towards the Nazis in the 1930s. They were all wrong too.

One of the first things they came out with when they gained local councils was that only the British flag would be flown over council buildings.. really who gives a flying fuck about a bit of cloth fluttering above a building.
Painting roundabouts is equally unimportant and a waste of money.

I’ve been in an East German town a few times when the neo nazis have marched through and that is going back 7 years to saner times than now…quite scary.

Far right it's extreme right you only had to hear some of the speeches on Saturday.it went beyond the boat immigrants.
Ban Islam
Shut mosques
Ban burka
Christianity should be the only religion.
And how many of those stone island wearing thugs have graced a church with their presence.

Germany is a basket case right now. The old East Germany are voting extreme right wing parties like AFD, while the old west of Germany is not yet game to go there. There is a serious divide between both.

Many of the problems came from reunification - east Germans expected to get the same living standard as the rest of the country, and when it didn't happen because it was impossible for Germany to bring millions with poor economic and social standards to the heights of the rest of the country, they've turned to parties promising a better living standard by using the same slogans the Nazis did in the 1930s.

The economic problems became more desperate after sanctions against Russia. Germany had depended on Russia's oil for decades, providing cheap energy to their manufacturing. When the cheap energy was switched off, their economic and social cracks became apparent.

He's clever enough to distance himself from Tommy Robinson so that he has plausible denibility that he's not the Neo National Front (but Robinson et al will spread the word regardless as Farage is the most mainstream anti immigration party and a good starting point)

This is a good point. Farage denies having anything to do with TR, but there's a huge nod-and-a-wink to TR's supporters from people who are Reform-adjacent (if you believe that Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib won't be back as full members of Reform before 2029 I have a bridge to sell you).

Ditto the anti-vaxxers: "We aren't anti-vaxx but we just happened to let one of your number claim the the Royal Family got cancer from Covid jabs at our conference, nudge-nudge". And you can add in the other conspiracy loons too.