Which country will you move to if Reform win next election?

[Krenonges]

Faced with the prospect of NHS being sold off, ICE-style immigration raids and deportations, emboldened bigots, changes to the school curriculum, public services dessimated, leaving EHCR, I honestly think I'll have no choice but to leave. I don't want to but I couldn't bring DC up in fascist state.

Luckily my DH, DC and I are all dual nationals of an EU country so we have an escape route if needed and this country goes to the dogs.

Where would you go?

He can’t get an Irish passport through marriage. If he’s a British citizen he can move via the CTA. However, there’s no universal free healthcare in Ireland. Most people have private health insurance. Unless you are very low income and then you can access but it’s very long waiting lists.

The rate of net migration in Ireland is double that in the UK and has been for years. The infrastructure cannot cope with it. Poor and in rural cases often inexistent public transport and a chronic housing shortage. Much worse than here. Housing in Dublin is basically London prices. The increase in pressure on housing especially has caused a lot of issues similar to here.

As a British or Irish citizen you can access state benefits in Ireland but I’m not sure you’d be better off as the cost of living is higher.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL?locations=IE

I am Irish born and bred and came over here in my 20s. I would like to go back and it would be really easy for me to culturally integrate since we have all our friends and family there but the housing and healthcare situation really put me off. I have a long term health condition and treating that in Ireland would be at least €1500 a year whereas it’s totally free here.

It’s just a dog whistle and excuse for
bigotry. The irony is many of the men for example saying they are against cultures who treat women badly treat their “own” (white) women badly and racially abuse POC women. Did you hear the recent case where a Sikh woman was allegedly racial abused and raped? Or the fact a significant proportion of the August 2024 rioters had domestic violence or other criminal records. As someone who doesn’t drive (learning now) I actually get the most bother from large groups of drunk English white men
on public transport. They are often abusive to women whether it’s sexist or racist stuff they’re spewing directly or indirectly to people or just leering at women going past and I feel nothing is done about it. It’s just almost an accepted cultural thing people including train staff turn a blind eye to. Let’s face it a lot of these men are the exact ones screaming about “protect ARE women and children” it’s farcical.

re. People not following through on moving I don’t know anyone on this thread but speaking for myself I’ve handed in my notice at work, I leave in December and I just got back from Spain last week and was doing my research there to figure out where I wanted to live. My Spanish friends are going to help me find accommodation for the new year.

I have American friends who have left because of Trump. I’m sure many people who are claiming they will leave because of Reform will do just that if they get in.

The way I see it though even if they don’t get in the ugliness I’ve seen in the recent march for example has put me off so much that I’ll gladly take a long or permanent break from here.

I want to stay in UK but things need to change for the better. I would rather vote Conservatives than Reform. Better the devil you know and all that. One thing is certain, Labour need to go!

There you go. You have chosen to live here rather than Italy. Plenty of corruption and fascism in Italy, which you will be aware of. My friend moved to Calabria and the area is full of mafia.

My family member had to fly her child across to alder hey for surgery because it just wasn’t available in Ireland. People moan about the NHS but people from other countries still come here to use the facilities (paying!) because they’re so good

Fair enough,I'm on the opposite side probably SNP for various reasons.
The Reform council's are a joke,one of them suggested officially painting mini roundabouts white with the red cross... really people want bins emptied,pot holes fixed,real local issues being tackled.
Painting roundabouts won't be top of the pops for the majority of people.

Quite a lot to unpack there. The New Labour (definitely not socialists) tax credit policy aimed to incentivise work and was also targeted at families with children - I’m sure I’ll be considered a bleeding heart lefty, but I think striving to improve conditions for children living in poverty is a positive (and benefits all of society in the long-term too, in fact). Was it costly and exploited in parts? Yes, of course.
But it’s also far more nuanced and complex than merely being about poor work ethics - zero hour contracts, fire and rehire and other employment issues also contribute to this.
There are clearly issues within our current welfare system and economic forecasts on it are concerning, but we need an informed, pragmatic approach to this not finger-pointing.

Likewise, we also need strategies to close the tax gap - £46.4 billion in 2023-2024. I wonder why the right wing politicians and media don’t highlight this more?

Regardless, none of this explains the Conservative’s irresponsible and disastrous approach to the NHS.

Finally, a voice of reason.

The histrionics around this are a little over the top aren’t they?
Im not a Reform voter either, by the way.

Reform did get over 4 million votes in the the 2024 election. 😳

The UK has far worse outcomes for most cancers than many developed countries across the world. We expect, and get, so much less than elsewhere.

Your keyboard appears to be autocorrecting ‘Thatcherite’ to ‘Marxist Communist’, Doris.

I despise Reform, but suggesting that anyone knows nobody who voted for them ever indcates that they don't know many people or haven't had many elections. Where I live at the last local elections they swept the board, and a know lots of people who voted for them. Ignoring what happened in May is foolish - they are a real threat.

It's really telling isn't it.

These are the uber privileged champagne socialists that Mumsnet is famous for!

Dual-nationals here as well.

Initially Frankfurt because H can get work there and speaks German, unless he just moves across office to Amsterdam until retirement, then northern Italy to live out our days sipping wine and painting pictures of olive groves!

Teens are looking at Germany and Canada.

But how many British passports want to move to where the people coming in are from?

😂😂😂 the irony!
And the Scots hate the English.

How many of these very same places are being skipped by immigrants?

My point stands.

Yes, I was recently talking to an Eritrean woman at my church. She actually cried with joy when she got her British passport. She's not an idiot, she knows it's not perfect, but she also knows what it's like for a woman to have no rights, and for people to have no freedom of speech and to live in fear and experience the worst of humanity. She can practise her faith. She feels free. I think if you just want to sip sangria in a warmer climate that's fine, but other countries have bigotry and serious economic problems.
Even Europe.

I don't know much about Canada. I do know that AfD are doing well in Germany.

What makes you think Scotland is radically different from England? 😂

We have enough of our own problems and many people are already concerned about mass immigration and drastic demographic changes.

Politicians in Scotland will say anything to appear 'progressive'. If Westminster said water was wet, you can bet Holyrood will claim water is dry. They put little thought into their policies as long as it's 'different'. Improving the country for Scots is at the bottom of their list.

Thanks @chaosmaker will check it out

@TheColourOutOfSpace remember
those delightful people holding fuck off back signs during Covid on the Scottish border?

Scotland’s brilliant but a large influx anywhere will cause repercussions

You could make a strong argument that the post war economic liberal consensus is broken in France, Italy and that German reunification is on the verge of failure. Most countries are now three horse races with the third party being characterised as either far right and fascist or ‘a return to common person’s sense’ depending on which side you’re on.

But many aren't depends on language to a large degree, English is the most widespread second language, there are a huge number of immigrants in France from French speaking African countries.

Yes, it's a very human reaction that any kind of drastic change or large influx into areas will cause tensions and prejudices to flare.

It doesn't matter if the demographic change is within a country (like city people moving to rural areas) or cross border movement.

In the past 5 years alone I have seen big demographic changes, and I've lived in Scotland for twenty years. I can only imagine what it's like in England. Things are going to get ugly when the political establishment refuses to listen.