Curfew for live-in nanny?

[NotableI]

A is a live in nanny, she works several evenings for the family but also has several nights off a week. On her nights off, she often goes out to dinner or to the pub with friends, and might not get back home til 10 or 11pm.

B is A’s employer. She finds A arriving back late inappropriate and disruptive given there are small children in the house, as it risks waking them up, and disturbs the parents who have to get up early. She’s asked A to ensure she’s home by dinner time.

In A’s view, her nights off should hers to do with as she pleases, as they are her only opportunities to see her friends, and she shouldn’t be held to a curfew when she’s not working, or being paid by B.

In B’s view, A is treating the house like a young adult house share and not adjusting in line with living in a family home. She still has the right to set rules about living in her home, even if they’re not within the scope of the job.

Who IBU?

(I am neither A nor B and this isn’t something that’s happening in my own life, but inspired by a recent discussion)

I think B is totally unreasonable. You can't give an adult employee a curfew when they are off duty. Not allowing a nanny to socialise in their time off makes this sound like she's after a modern slave.

When A is working evenings, are the parents ever out of the house? If so, what time do they come in? I assume they don't have a dinner time curfew for themselves! I would be looking for another job if I were A. B is totally and utterly unreasonable. It would be reasonable to say, "Can you come in quietly?" but not "You need to be home by dinner time!".

B is being unreasonable A can do what she wants on her nights off. As long as she’s not slamming doors and turning every light on in the house and stomping up the stairs.

B is totally unreasonable.

This. You cannot imprison an employee in your home during their time off. But you can ask them to come home silently. if they are not capable of this, then they need to find a more suitable job or live out.

A is an employee, not a child. A should be free to come in at whatever time she likes. She should ensure she is quiet so as not to wake anyone who is asleep.

Children need to get used to adults in the house coming and going. Even as a parent there are times when I may go out and come back late and the children are sleeping.

So she has to be back and tucked up in bed for 7pm on her nights off? How would this girl ever see her friends assuming most people arent back from work until after 6 if they do 9-5.30? Sounds like they are wanting a live in slave, she's allowed a life. If she's been noisy coming in they should just ask her to be quiet when she let's herself back in, they can't have control over what she does 24/7.

A and B need to figure out together how A can avoid waking other household members when A comes home after they're in bed. I say together as adjustments may need to be made on both sides, so that it's clear to A what B considers disruptive/too much noise, and so that B can facilitate any adjustments that may be needed to help A move around quietly since it's B's house.

(Oops, confused my As and Bs. Edited.)

@Pigeonsandgiraffees ·
It's B's house. If she doesn't want strangers letting themselves into her home after the family have gone to bed then she has right to make this a condition of the job.
But, as I previously said, that should have been made clear at the stage the job was offered. I agree if it wasnt made clear when the job was offered then she can't do it after the Nanny has accepted the job.

Home by dinner time? Nah, you can't impose that on another adult.
Does B think she owns the entire nanny now?

B shouldn't have an adult employee living in their home if B can't cope with the fact that adults sometimes go out in the evenings to see their friends. B needs to understand that her children's nanny is not a child herself and that she should not be restricted from socialising outside the home during the hours she isn't being paid to look after B's children.

B also needs to understand that 10-11pm isn't bloody late for an adult to come home.

I'd actually go as far as to say that B is being a complete cunt, to be honest, and I hope A finds a job very soon working for people who aren't insane.

Yes, she’s paying the wages for the time worked, not the time off. If she can dictate where the nanny needs to be then she needs to pay for it. What if the nanny wants to stay over at a friend’s house, or go to a gig or the theatre, on her time off and with her own money? None of those are unreasonable things for a grown adult working x number of hours to do in her spare time. Having to be home by dinner time is unnecessary and unrealistic unless she is being paid to be there.

I would expect the nanny to be quiet when she comes home and not to make unnecessary noise. That is reasonable. Anything else is not.

Good luck attracting a nanny that has to be at home for dinner time even when she's not working.

Employers dont own live in staff.

As long as she is quiet and doesn't wake anyone up then she should be allowed to come back whenever she likes. Obviously on the proviso she's in a fit state and ready to work whenever her next shift starts.

She is entitled to her own life outside of work. Just because she lives in your house doesn't mean you can impose rules on her as if she was a teenager.

She's an adult and your employee. But only when she's actually working. The rest of the time she's a lodger. And you wouldn't dictate when a lodger was allowed to go out of the house?

Almost unanimous then! I will stress again that this isn’t something happening in my life, and was just inspired by a discussion I was having with a friend. I wonder if the responses would be different if the curfew was later but still imposed?

Terms & conditions apply to working hours only. It is never reasonable to dictate how/where your employee spends their personal time outside work.

No they don't sound compatible...but that's OK because A will soon have had enough and find a new role with a more reasonable employer. And good nannies are like gold dust.

The nanny isn't a stranger.

I suspect B would have a huge problem trying to find a live in nanny prepared to go along with such an arrangement. I can't imagine there would be many folks willing to accept such an arrangement. You'd have to be utterly desperate to take the job, surely? And the whole time you're working there you'd be looking for a different job where you're not trapped in someone else's home every evening!

It doesn't matter if it's 10pm or 1am, if the nanny is quiet, doesn't wake anyone, is on their night off, is fit for work the next day then a curfew is pointless.

I don’t think there would be a problem with a curfew of midnight but with the understanding the nanny could stay out as long as she’s in time for work the next morning

but it would have to be agreed at job offer stage

ultinately if you have live in staff you have to accept it is now their home though

Of course they don't own the staff.
It's a business arrangement.
The employer sets out the conditions of employment and prospective employees have the right to not take the job if they don't like the conditions - or the pay, or the employer, or the children, or the location. Whatever.
If the employer can't find anyone to take the job with the conditions she is offering then so be it. She would need to compromise or find another solution for her child care problems.

I think this too. She doesn’t need to wake everyone up when she comes home

Sounds like it's not working her living there , perhaps she needs to live elsewhere and be a daily nanny not live in

Unless she is a family member, a friend of the family, or had a prior connection to the employer then she is a stranger.

Even a later curfew is ridiculous, she should be able to sleep elsewhere on her nights off and return for work at whatever she time she starts in the morning. Unless she is being paid overnight to look after their children they can't dictate when she's there when she on her own time. It isn't unheard of for people to have relationships and a job!

OK.

😂