Curfew for live-in nanny?

[NotableI]

A is a live in nanny, she works several evenings for the family but also has several nights off a week. On her nights off, she often goes out to dinner or to the pub with friends, and might not get back home til 10 or 11pm.

B is A’s employer. She finds A arriving back late inappropriate and disruptive given there are small children in the house, as it risks waking them up, and disturbs the parents who have to get up early. She’s asked A to ensure she’s home by dinner time.

In A’s view, her nights off should hers to do with as she pleases, as they are her only opportunities to see her friends, and she shouldn’t be held to a curfew when she’s not working, or being paid by B.

In B’s view, A is treating the house like a young adult house share and not adjusting in line with living in a family home. She still has the right to set rules about living in her home, even if they’re not within the scope of the job.

Who IBU?

(I am neither A nor B and this isn’t something that’s happening in my own life, but inspired by a recent discussion)

No it is not at all reasonable and I would wish B luck in trying to enforce this. 11pm is not stupid o'clock for an employee who is as entitled to a social life as any other adult. She is not 'waking up' the children 'in her care'; they are not in her care as she is off duty. Although it is reasonable to ask the nanny to be considerate by being as quiet as possible, it may sometimes unfortunately happen that the children are awoken. If the employers don't like that then they need to pay their nanny more so that she works out of the house.

What time does B get home when A is babysitting? Are they always back by dinner time?

When we had au-pairs, never a nanny, it was a blessing if they had friends they wanted to spend time with in the evenings rather than staying in moping under my feet. Swedish ones were the best because they could hop on a bus to the Swedish Church which had social events for them. They came in quietly late at night.

God help B when her DC are teenagers.

The nanny has to come home reasonably quietly, no shouting or banging.

However, whether the children wake up (even when she makes a reasonable effort) or not is outside of her control. If the stairs are squeaky or the children wake up when a pin drops, the parents need to sort the house, not give their employee a curfew.

Actually, coming at 10/11 pm is relatively early, even 2am would be ok (if she is fit for her job at the agreed time)

When is "dinnertime"? All the clocks I've ever seen have had numbers around the edge, not meals.

Now I'm imagining a hobbit clock with breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies etc marked on it 😄

A should be free to come and go in her free time but do so quietly at night as a considerate person living in the house. She has every right to move about and exist at night, her live in status will be reflected in her pay.

Bs request she is home by dinnertime is an extreme solution to a small problem. Do the parents never go out on an evening with the nanny babysitting? I'm sure they do. A just needs to be quieter entering the bouse.

WTF?

The nanny can influence only her own behaviour - being reasonably careful whenever she comes home.

She doesn't control the house or the children - if the floor is squeaky and the children light sleepers, it is sad, but expecting her to not use the floor because of that would be unreasonable.

When I had a live in au pair, I asked them to be home by 11pm on a night when they were working with the children before noon the next day. Simply as I didn’t want her to drive the children too hungover or tired. Otherwise it’s their decision.

She should take steps to minimise the noise though, making sure everything she needs is ready in her room etc so she doesn’t need to clatter through the communal areas too much. I think you shouldn’t have a live-in if you are totally allergic to someone else moving around the house.

They do not ‘own’ the nanny. As long as she is being respectful and being quiet when she comes in then there should be no issue

Yes obviously that's true. I guess it depends on how the nanny is actually behaving. Most people appear to be assuming that the nanny is being as quiet as she can be. I was assuming drunken, loud talking, banging into things, treading really heavily, thumping, letting doors bang. Most parents go to bed after their young children, so do walk in their house, open cupboards and doors, use the loo, maybe even shower, after their young kids are in bed, so I honestly didn't assume she would be waking the kids by coming in respectfully.

B is being totally unreasonable. A should come in quietly but even a 11pm curfew is in my option unreasonable.

Ok, I see your point. We just don't have enough information to be sure.

I went with the OP's wording of B seeing coming at 10pm as "inappropriate", "risks waking them up" and "having a right to set rules" which is all about B disagreeing with A's choices and doesn't mention any factual shortcoming on A's side.

I suppose that had there been some factual issue like loud drunk signing, B wouldn't have fail to mention it.

one of our nannies was a bit of a party goer- we had to ask her to either be in by 4 am, or leave it till after 7. She had a bit of a habit of coming in at 5-6 am which would wake the kids, and then I'd be woken up too. but that was the limit of our curfew as frankly, they are adults and are allowed to make their own choices. So long as I didn't have to get up pre 7am, I was happy.

Absolutely fucking batshit, not just unreasonable. In by dinner time 🤣🤣🤣

Part of having a live in Nanny is accepting you have another ADULT living in the home.

I wake up if a butterfly thinks about flapping their wings in Thailand 🙄 so I CHOOSE not to have other adults living here. When people stay for extended periods I accept my sleep WILL be disturbed by their (perfectly normal) behaviour.

The parents should have considered this BEFORE employing A Live In Nanny, then discussed it with any potential nanny.

A curfew is not unreasonable for a 'partying nanny' on nights before they're due to be looking after the children, but a ress as a reasonable one, not bloody dinner time.

Meanwhile, back in 1895…,,!! Dear heaven! Why is she still working for the family? A night off is just that…,a night. As long as she comes in quietly and is fully functioning for work the next day what time she comes in is up to her UNLESS her hours were specified in her contract of employment Try putting those hours in the contract for the next nanny and see how many take the job. The job that will become vacant quite soon

A should have defined contract terms regarding expectations first, to avoid confusion. A could have decided whether a job with a ‘curfew’ would be appropriate.

I'm not sure if would ever have occurred to A to ask about a potential curfew! It wouldn't have crossed my mind as a possibility.

My response would be exactly the same. She is an employee not a house slave. So long as she is up and ready to start work when expected and not making excessive noise when returning, then her live is her own.

All this “it might wake the children” - have the children ever actually been woken up by the nanny returning? Or is it just an excuse to justify controlling the nanny’s free time?