Husband touched a kid to reprimand them on school trip

[ToddlerIs2]

Husband went on school ltrip with yr 6 dc as our DC"s 121 so only responsible for him. Yr 4 girl in front was being annoying all journey. Husband asked her to stop several times. He dozed off and she banged the seats again (so banding onto her knee) and he lent over and tapped her on the head and told her to stop. Off the coach the teacher spoke to him and he said sorry, didn't think etc. now head wants to see him. What's the likely consequences? We have a lot going on and I'm not holding it all together very well so at home so don't know how irrational I am. He's never smacked out kids so I know it won't have been a smack to the head etc and it was only when she got off she told the teacher. I'm absolutely fuming because how did he forget to never touch someone else's child? And obviously there's an angry parent there that there's a grown man who's touched their daughter so school will probably have to make an example of him. Any ideas what's likely to happen?

Your school sounds lax and weird

Strange that the poster two posts above you said that her teacher friend touched a child, the parents claimed assault and the teacher had to quit.

But you can touch as many children as you want!

But .. most of us aren't saying children should be touched by strange adults?

We're saying that your sweeping statements that anyone who has touched a child has abused them, and that schools are bound by (as yet unevidenced) legislation that means that any staff member who touches a child for any reason will be fired (and you claim in one comment any teacher would be banned from teaching for life?!) are both untrue and ridiculous

That's so sad.

Your side only makes sense if you ignore safeguarding legislation, multi-agency child protection processes and accepted definitions of language.

So are you ever going to link to the national guidance that you mentioned upthread which states all school staff are forbidden from making physical contact with pupils?

Also still really interested to know which training provider it was who told you that the way physical abuse is currently defined in UK law is wrong and that anyone who touches a child for any reason is guilt of abuse.

I think it will be fine ultimately. He just needs to apologize, say he leaned over the seat to tap her on the shoulder and accidentally tapped her on the head instead, not a reprimand tap, a "hello, please stop that" tap.

End of story.

Thank-you for posting this. I ran through in my mind what I would have done if my DD had come home telling me this and I would have responded in the same way.

I'm really not on Booneymill's side, but they did say that they took - as in received - music lessons. Not that they taught them.

That's awful. In every school I've worked in the member of staff would have had the full support of the Leadership team in this scenario. You will always get some parents who overreact to incidents, and of course any allegations have to be investigated but LT have a duty of care towards staff and it's really sad that your friend didn't feel supported enough to remain in her role.

We're back. Sorry to some posters but there were no police circling, no SS to haul away the children, he's not barred from the premises and isn't officially barred from school trips (although I would fully expect him to not be needed if he offered. He won't).
Mom was suitably furious, DH suitably sorry, Head Teacher suitably humiliating (not a criticism, I think it's a far better approach than direct antagonism). He apologised to the child with their mother and teacher present at the parents request (i wasnt sure if we should approach or not).
Obviously they could still report it to the Police but it seems unlikely given what has been said all around.

I'm suitably humiliated that I'm going to the THAT woman of THAT man who did THAT THING. Suitably concerned that either parent are going to make life difficult at drop off / pick up esp given she hangs out with one of DS's peers mothers.

My only concern now is that is doesn't impact on DS and he doesn't suffer any bullying from it.

Thank you for those who have offered a levelled response and understanding that sometimes people fuck up

That post is absolutely correct. Worked in multiple schools where that's the case. It's not weird or lax- it's normal. Safe and nurturing and most of all appropriate.

Oh and re an adult, he'd have been able to reach their shoulder so would have tapped that. I imagine DH putting his hand between two chairs in the hope of tapping a shoulder would have had grave consequences.

I have said she is a non music teacher ie she didn't teach music.

I think that is probably as good a result as you can have hoped for really. I’m sure you’ll all move on from this. People’s memories are short and new school gossip will emerge. Hopefully your husband has learned a lesson now and this can be put in the past.

Suitably concerned that either parent are going to make life difficult at drop off / pick up esp given she hangs out with one of DS's peers mothers. My only concern now is that is doesn't impact on DS and he doesn't suffer any bullying from it.

OP, if this happens just email the HT. Any half decent HT would speak to the parents or children involved making clear that this is not appropriate, that the school has dealt with the matter and all parties now need to agree to draw a line under it and move on in the best interests of all the children involved.

Can you post the link to these guidelines please (from a bemused teacher).

But if you're on a moving bus, it is perfectly viable that you may aim for a shoulder and get a head.

Glad it's over anyway. Poor him, poor you, poor son. I won't say poor girl because she was obviously being a monumental pain in the ass.

Thank you. The first sensible response.

Bloody hell, no wonder kids get away with bad behaviour

I'm so glad it's been dealt with sensibly. Hopefully the rumours mill won't kick in. I think some pp were overreacting with talk of abuse and assault.

Was it a 'gentle tap' though? That's the one thing we've never really got to the bottom of.

Which is great as a general rule of thumb. lt's also not what you were arguing earlier.

Apropos of nothing, humour me with a hypothetical situation. You see a child running away from their adult in the street. The child is about to run onto a busy road. The adult who looks like they know the child is too far behind to be able to reach them in time. You are between the child and the road, and you could do something to stop the child from ending up in the road. Everything that you could do, would mean that you, a strange adult, made some form of physical contact with the child. You could choose to make sure that you don't touch the child and let them take their chances with the oncoming traffic. WWYD?

Didn't help that school dealt with DH immediately (spoke to him, he apologised to teacher) and reported it to the head immediately (elsewhere on the trip) but in the chaos of home time didn't tell the parent
School always intended to call Dad in today, but they heard it from their child that DH has hit them, not the original conversation from school that DH had tapped them. So didn't feel school cared, adding to their anger. School obviously accept their lapse in speaking to the parent at pick up but they obviously know we've been in today.

That same child may need the same help a week or two later when they go into Reception. Do they just get ignored In your school? Have they heard of their duty to make rasonable adjustments for disability?

He told the OP that it was with a single finger with the intention to get the child's attention, not with the intention of the tap being the reprimand. I'd say we've gotten as far along "to the bottom of it" as we can do on Mumsnet.

It's simply not true. Not least because it would be impossible to enforce

"Schools should not have a ‘no touch’ policy. It is often necessary or desirable for a teacher to touch a child (e.g. dealing with accidents or teaching musical instruments)."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/school-discipline-new-guidance-for-teachers