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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Charlie Kirk- and the reality

1000 replies

Tandora · 13/09/2025 20:14

So here we are- they have a suspect.
The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell.

So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot.

Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns.

So what are we going to take/ learn from this?

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
FOJN · 13/09/2025 23:20

Bananarama2000 · 13/09/2025 23:12

I don’t know they make all sorts of statements in the US. Trump finished the war in Ukraine? It’s been 2weeks hasn’t it?

If you can't tell the difference between a statement made by a man who is communicating with the investigation team who have access to the evidence and Trumps PR nonsense I don't think I can help you.

lkjhgfdsa · 13/09/2025 23:22

https://bylinetimes.com/2025/09/13/deadly-memes-tyler-robinsons-far-right-groyper-ties/

I've copied the text below for those that don't want to click...

Though there are few direct political statements online from this “shy, quiet kid”, there are more indications that Tyler Robinson might have been radicalised by far-right online movements rather than the far left.

An image posted by his mother, Amberson Robinson on Facebook around Halloween 2018 describes her son as “some guy from a meme” and shows Robinson squatting on some grass. The uniform is precise – Adidas-style track pants – and the pose is significant, a meme that became known as a low ‘Slav squat’.

By 2018, this ‘Gopnik’ aesthetic – the squat, the tracksuit – had fully converged with the ‘Pepe the Frog’ meme in the alt-right online sphere. The ‘Gopnik Pepe’ was common currency on 4chan and adjacent platforms, a symbol of a certain nihilistic, post-Soviet edge. It then evolved into many variants.

To understand the potential significance of Robinson’s 2018 costume, one must trace the complex genealogy of its symbols.

The journey begins with Pepe the Frog, an apolitical comic character co-opted by the alt-right around 2015-2016. By September 2016, the Anti-Defamation League had designated certain variants of Pepe a hate symbol. Its march into the mainstream was confirmed in 2017 when a Pepe emoji trended heavily during the Super Bowl.

This period of 2016-2018 saw the ‘Gopnik squat’ meme merge with Pepe, creating the ‘Gopnik Pepe’ – a symbol of defiant, low-life resistance that resonated deeply within the nihilistic communities of 4chan. This is the exact cultural moment Robinson’s Halloween costume inhabits.

By 2018-2019, this meme culture crystallised into a formal political project with the rise of Nick Fuentes. A new, chubbier frog variant called the ‘Groyper’ – a portmanteau of ‘frog’ and ‘grouper’ fish – became the namesake for Fuentes’s network of white nationalist, Christian nationalist activists. Their goal: to tug mainstream U.S. conservatism sharply to the far right.

This strategy erupted into public view in the autumn of 2019 during the ‘Groyper Wars’. Fuentes’s followers, organised online, systematically disrupted events hosted by Charlie Kirk’s Turning Point USA (TPUSA), confronting speakers with loaded questions on immigration, Israel, and LGBT rights designed to ‘expose’ them as insufficiently ‘America First’.

Incidents at Ohio State (October 29, 2019) and the heckling Donald Trump Jr. at a promotional event for his book Triggered at UCLA that November cemented the Groyper identity: a fusion of memes and coordinated real-world action aimed squarely at figures like Kirk, whom they branded as ‘Conservative Inc.’ sell-outs.

By 2020, Fuentes had turned this meme-driven network into a sustained media and political infrastructure under the ‘America First’ banner, complete with an annual conference (AFPAC) and a thriving livestream community.

Dan Evans
‘Bella Ciao’
Though the only evidence so far of Robinson’s allegiance to the Groyper movement is seven years old, and made murky by the deliberately coded and ironic nature of evolving memes, one bit of new evidence suggests the Halloween image might be important.

Police recovered a Mauser Model 98 rifle in a nearby wooded area soon after Charlie Kirk’s murder. Utah’s Governor, Spencer Cox, later confirmed that unfired casings carried bizarre inscriptions.

These included: “Hey fascist! Catch!” (a line from the Tarantino movie Inglorious Basterds) is featured along with arrows which reference the multiplayer video game Helldivers, and various imperatives with the word ‘fascist’ are memes in the Helldivers community, which is popular with the far right community.

The gun casing engravings included some other classic internet trolling motifs – “If you read this, you are gay, LMAO” “notices bulge OWO what’s this?” – and a single line: “Bella Ciao.”

“Bella Ciao” is a 20th-century Italian folk song that became the anthem of the anti-fascist Resistance during the Second World War. Its lyrics – “O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao! – are a mournful yet defiant farewell to a life of freedom, sung by a partisan who is fighting and expects to die for the cause of liberation from fascism. After the song gained global recognition from its feature in the Netflix series Money Heist, the Groyper movement co-opted it.

A HUGEL remix of “Bella Ciao” was included in a leaked ‘Groyper Wars playlist’ which provided the definitive soundtrack and curated set of signals for the movement.

The song is also featured in Hearts of Iron, another online war game popular on the far right. An X account named “AF Ciao Bella” — a direct fusion of Fuentes’s ‘America First’ brand and the meme — suggests these symbols were often integrated into the group’s identity.

By reportedly engraving this message on his unused shell casings, Tyler Robinson’s messages suggest he could well have been inspired by the Groyper movement or other far-right influences. But only a full investigation by the authorities will determine the suspected killer’s motivations.

CaroleLandis · 13/09/2025 23:23

𝐓𝐘𝐋𝐄𝐑 𝐑𝐎𝐁𝐈𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐍 𝐃𝐄𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐈𝐁𝐄𝐃 𝐁𝐘 𝐂𝐋𝐀𝐒𝐒𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐄 𝐀𝐒 𝐀 “𝐑𝐄𝐃𝐃𝐈𝐓 𝐊𝐈𝐃”

One of Tyler Robinson’s high school classmates just dropped the most telling description yet:
𝘏𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘢 𝘸𝘦𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘙𝘦𝘥𝘥𝘪𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘥. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘩** 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘰𝘰 𝘮𝘶𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘦𝘰𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘧𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘴.

That’s it right there. Reddit, TikTok, BlueSky — liberal cesspools that radicalize bored kids into thinking they’re “freedom fighters” when really they’re just pawns. Tyler wasn’t some genius mastermind. He was a mentally weak product of leftist echo chambers online.

The internet is no joke — it’s a pipeline that takes weird, lonely kids and feeds them poison until they snap. And in this case, Charlie Kirk and his family paid the price.

Those of you with kids - get them off those online groups... they truly are cesspools of malice and ill-intent.

Bananarama2000 · 13/09/2025 23:23

To be fair I don’t really care about American politics. It’s just irritating that it’s affecting our own. The trickle down of the OTT extremes isn’t usually so quick.

KhakiTiger · 13/09/2025 23:32

OP is a bit desperate to prove something here, even though the picture is still says that he was a far left fanatic. It’s like the left don’t like being found out. Like they think that the rest of of us can’t see past the ‘be kind’ facade. No, we see the hypocritical nastiness. It’s as clear as day.

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 13/09/2025 23:37

CaroleLandis · 13/09/2025 23:23

𝐓𝐘𝐋𝐄𝐑 𝐑𝐎𝐁𝐈𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐍 𝐃𝐄𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐈𝐁𝐄𝐃 𝐁𝐘 𝐂𝐋𝐀𝐒𝐒𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐄 𝐀𝐒 𝐀 “𝐑𝐄𝐃𝐃𝐈𝐓 𝐊𝐈𝐃”

One of Tyler Robinson’s high school classmates just dropped the most telling description yet:
𝘏𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘢 𝘸𝘦𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘙𝘦𝘥𝘥𝘪𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘥. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘩** 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘰𝘰 𝘮𝘶𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘦𝘰𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘧𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘴.

That’s it right there. Reddit, TikTok, BlueSky — liberal cesspools that radicalize bored kids into thinking they’re “freedom fighters” when really they’re just pawns. Tyler wasn’t some genius mastermind. He was a mentally weak product of leftist echo chambers online.

The internet is no joke — it’s a pipeline that takes weird, lonely kids and feeds them poison until they snap. And in this case, Charlie Kirk and his family paid the price.

Those of you with kids - get them off those online groups... they truly are cesspools of malice and ill-intent.

You think Reddit only has left-wing influences? You never heard of r/The_Donald? Or r/Conservative? Or the even murkier private subs? And as you mention other sites such as Bluesky, have you not seen Twitter or Truth Social over the last few years? InfoWars ring any bells? Or 4Chan and 8Chan, the homes of QAnon and more right-wing conspiracy theories than you can shake a stick at? They're all teeming with rabid calls to bring the war to the democrats right now.

And given it's a documented fact that there have been way more instances of violence from the right than the left in the US over the last couple of decades, does that concern you too?

WhereIsMyJumper · 14/09/2025 00:00

Nozache · 13/09/2025 21:21

3 out of of the 4 slogans on the bullets suggest someone on the absolute opposite end of the political spectrum to groypers. So I wouldn’t go around repeating “he sounds like an alt-right groyper” when you had little to no knowledge about groypers before today.

In fact, I wouldn’t go around confidently asserting anything about this guy at all. Everyone is racing to assign him to whatever their opponents’ side is, and everyone is falling for whatever half baked theory is currently convenient for them. Disappointing all round.

Totally agree. I was going to say this.

The bigger topic at hand, in my opinion, is that someone shouldn’t be shot for sharing opinions… no matter how much you may not like them. That gun violence is a huge problem in the US and that politics is becoming dangerously polarised and tribal.

The tribalism being carried on by people like the OP. Seems like the bigger issue here to some people is “is he one of us or one of them”

The answer is neither. It doesn’t matter if he is left or right. He is an extremist.

CaroleLandis · 14/09/2025 00:01

Tyler Robinson's loving mother sent her normal son away to college, and he came out, a radical Antifa leftist. Living a culture of death and a lifestyle of impunity.

Charlie Kirk- and the reality
Ghhbiuj · 14/09/2025 00:02

I read an accusation that since Kirk was trying to get the Epstein files released, he was a dangerous person for a few people.

I'm aware this has a good chance of being totally false. But it's worth not entirely dismissing, because there's a lot of people who would be destroyed if he was successful. And it was oh so easy to get someone "ill" to do it and blame it on the left.

Probably unlikely but not implausible

GimmieABreakOr3 · 14/09/2025 00:05

Ghhbiuj · 14/09/2025 00:02

I read an accusation that since Kirk was trying to get the Epstein files released, he was a dangerous person for a few people.

I'm aware this has a good chance of being totally false. But it's worth not entirely dismissing, because there's a lot of people who would be destroyed if he was successful. And it was oh so easy to get someone "ill" to do it and blame it on the left.

Probably unlikely but not implausible

what a load of bs

Anonymousemouses · 14/09/2025 00:53

CaroleLandis · 14/09/2025 00:01

Tyler Robinson's loving mother sent her normal son away to college, and he came out, a radical Antifa leftist. Living a culture of death and a lifestyle of impunity.

I doubt he was radicalised in college. He was only there for one semester.

Brandyb · 14/09/2025 01:54

What are you implying?
I hope you're not implying that the gender identity of Robinson's partner had anything to do with what happened

DinaGoth · 14/09/2025 02:10

CaroleLandis · 14/09/2025 00:01

Tyler Robinson's loving mother sent her normal son away to college, and he came out, a radical Antifa leftist. Living a culture of death and a lifestyle of impunity.

He spent one semester at college.

During that semester, his classes were online.

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:26

Pepperedpickles · 13/09/2025 21:05

The idea that he was left wing has been retracted. His ‘’friend’’ from college in 2018 said he has left wing ideas but then later conveniently changed his story to say he didn’t actually know him that well and can’t remember. People are desperate to blame 😂😂😂😂. It got retracted hours and hours ago from the guardian. There is no evidence he was left wing at all. It’s looking more likely he was goyper if you ask me.

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:28

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:26

The idea that he was left wing has been retracted. His ‘’friend’’ from college in 2018 said he has left wing ideas but then later conveniently changed his story to say he didn’t actually know him that well and can’t remember. People are desperate to blame 😂😂😂😂. It got retracted hours and hours ago from the guardian. There is no evidence he was left wing at all. It’s looking more likely he was goyper if you ask me.

I only heard of groypers yesterday - are these likely to have transgender partners?

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 02:33

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:26

The idea that he was left wing has been retracted. His ‘’friend’’ from college in 2018 said he has left wing ideas but then later conveniently changed his story to say he didn’t actually know him that well and can’t remember. People are desperate to blame 😂😂😂😂. It got retracted hours and hours ago from the guardian. There is no evidence he was left wing at all. It’s looking more likely he was goyper if you ask me.

I’m going to wait and see what else comes out, I don’t think there’s anything credible either way right now.

Following the guardians news coverage on the Sandie Peggie case, which I followed in real time via tribunal tweets, its coverage was woeful, and I don’t believe anything they write. Very skewed.

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:37

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:28

I only heard of groypers yesterday - are these likely to have transgender partners?

Highly unlikely! But those are two seperate possibilities. Even if the trans partner story is correct, that isn’t a forgone conclusion that he’s a leftist. I mean, it’s not right that someone got assassinated, but if you’re going to go around publicly espousing those kinds of inflammatory views in a country which allows anyone to own a gun, you can’t really be surprised if you upset someone enough who might shoot you, can you?

Pomni · 14/09/2025 02:39

TheFrendo · 13/09/2025 22:38

The suspect is not right wing. Where did you get that?

He described Kirk as a fascist and had woke/trans/antifa slogans on his bullets.

Since when is are homophobic statements left wing?!

One if the bullets said "If you read this you're gay LMAO"

That's the very opposite of "woke".

The furry reference is from a phrase commonly used to take the piss out of furries online.

The two references to fascism may seem anti-fascist on the surface and indeed many right wing media outlets and commentators were quick to jump on that and blame the far left.

However, more recent information shows both reference online alt right culture, e.g. a game called Helldiver 2 which is about building a fascist regime and although billed as satire, is popular with actual fascists / white supremacists.

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:43

Pomni · 14/09/2025 02:39

Since when is are homophobic statements left wing?!

One if the bullets said "If you read this you're gay LMAO"

That's the very opposite of "woke".

The furry reference is from a phrase commonly used to take the piss out of furries online.

The two references to fascism may seem anti-fascist on the surface and indeed many right wing media outlets and commentators were quick to jump on that and blame the far left.

However, more recent information shows both reference online alt right culture, e.g. a game called Helldiver 2 which is about building a fascist regime and although billed as satire, is popular with actual fascists / white supremacists.

If the recent reports that his partner was a transgender furry are true it would seem likely that the bullet casings were a bit of piss take - the shooter maywell have enjoyed the thought of everyone trying to figure them out.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:48

YABU because we don’t actually know and won’t until the trial.

The fact the far left including transactivists are celebrating his death is deeply worrying, and really finishes the view of the “tolerant left” and “gentle trans people who just wanna pee”.

As a gender critical woman Charlie Kirk’s death makes me glad I’m not well known. Transactivists want to kill people who disagree with them and refuse to pander to their delusion. This should worry every single one of us no matter our views. We are not safe from angry men, not now, not ever.

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:51

I don’t know how reliable vanity fair is as a source, but this is where I read about the whole goyper thing and it is quite convincing taken together. Makes some sense. But I suppose we’ll have to see what else happens to get a clearer picture.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning

The republicans are falling over themselves to blame the left though, so who really knows if what gets accepted as the truth will actually be true 😂

Groypers, Helldivers 2, Furries: What Do the Messages Left by Charlie Kirk’s Alleged Killer Actually Mean?

Suspect Tyler Robinson allegedly inscribed messages on bullet casings that reference video games and internet culture—but they hardly point toward a coherent ideology.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning

DinaGoth · 14/09/2025 02:51

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:28

I only heard of groypers yesterday - are these likely to have transgender partners?

Look up CatboyKami, a close friend of Nick Fuentes who has livestreamed with him before.

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:52

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:37

Highly unlikely! But those are two seperate possibilities. Even if the trans partner story is correct, that isn’t a forgone conclusion that he’s a leftist. I mean, it’s not right that someone got assassinated, but if you’re going to go around publicly espousing those kinds of inflammatory views in a country which allows anyone to own a gun, you can’t really be surprised if you upset someone enough who might shoot you, can you?

but if you’re going to go around publicly espousing those kinds of inflammatory views in a country which allows anyone to own a gun, you can’t really be surprised if you upset someone enough who might shoot you, can you?

Of course you should be surprised - we should all be surprised and horrified that you can't go around espousing views of any type without expecting to be shot at.

Snorebor · 14/09/2025 02:52

Chickenbone123 · 13/09/2025 20:47

I will actually cone back to say I have been thinking about this a lot over the last few days. And also watched a fair bit of Charlie Kirk’s stuff.

I am starting to think it’s actually wrapped up deeply in their national psyche. The American hopes and dreams, and by extension hypothetical fears and nightmares. It is as if they do not live and value the present; or certainly they pin this as less important than the potential future.

You can see this in their abortion laws. That they value potential human life as having a higher value than actual living persons. And also in their gun laws. In that they value the right to protect themselves from a hypothetical tyrannical government as more important than actual living persons here and now. It’s all wrapped up in potential. Hopes and dreams, fears and nightmares. Not current reality.

Wow interesting take! So true - great points

Teanbiscuits33 · 14/09/2025 02:56

InWalksBarberalla · 14/09/2025 02:52

but if you’re going to go around publicly espousing those kinds of inflammatory views in a country which allows anyone to own a gun, you can’t really be surprised if you upset someone enough who might shoot you, can you?

Of course you should be surprised - we should all be surprised and horrified that you can't go around espousing views of any type without expecting to be shot at.

My point is - if you’re in a country where any Tom, Dick or Harry can get hold of a gun and you’re espousing those kinds of things, then you should be aware that it’s not beyond the realms of a possibility that one day someone might get very upset with you over it and want revenge. He knew that, and I think you do as well. I didn’t say it was right, I said it’s a very real risk.

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