Charlie Kirk- and the reality

[Tandora]

So here we are- they have a suspect.
The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell.

So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot.

Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns.

So what are we going to take/ learn from this?

AIBU?

So you know what I love. I’m sat in a little house in Wales, and finally there is conversation and debate about things like DEI/ trans ideology/ gender roles etc

Thank you Charlie Kirk. Your death won’t be in vain, because people are no longer scared to stand up for what they believe in.

I’ve already said I don’t agree with gun ownership. Perhaps you missed that, despite quoting it?

What is apparent is that you are totally unable to appreciate that sometimes opinions with which you disagree are worth hearing, and that people with whom you disagree have the right to hold those opinions - even when they are clearly misguided or even hurtful.

There’s a word for people like that…

a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life.

I just read an article where it seems the FBI have confirmed the alleged shooter was indeed in a relationship with a transgender furry. Not right wing after all. Any thoughts?

😂The comment you're referring to was one of the most spectacularly muddled I've seen in these threads - and that's a strong field! Still catching up on this minestrone of received opinions and knee-jerk slogans; I expect someone's already taken you to task for saying r/w women can't love.

RIP rationality, irony and percipience.

And the pp’s response to my comment, though not directly addressed to them, was quite revealing.

Well despite people tying themselves in minors it has been officially confirmed that Kirk’s assassin was in a relationship with a Moro F transitioning trans person and that this is being investigated as a motive. The left are so desperate for this to be anything but. But the left has truly shown their colours these last few days.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15097383/charlie-kirk-assassin-transgender-lover-tyler-robinson.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR42q9jkt7R7qAgcc6cNtkBf7vWnh1a4ZREbgRHeplkdMpqu9QZeeD9LPyKzdw_aem_Mp1wp35eGBLyytqZWab86Q#

I’d never heard of him either!

I’m interested to hear of what the OP now thinks given the Utah Givernets conformation that Robinson was in a relationship with a MToF trans person and this is being investigated as a motive. It’s not looking likely (and never was this is anything but left wing extremism)

You suggested that Charlie put himself in the position to become a victim of murder. So whenever something bad happens to a person, surely we have to by that standard, look at what they did to attract that evil. Make them take some accountability?

It's not about attracting evil, but promoting the conditions for this bad thing to happen.

For instance, a very vocal sector of society sees elderly people as useless drains on society and genuinely feels people's lives should be 'humanely' ended when they reach a certain age. Were I to support this idea and devote my life to making it happen, I couldn't reasonably complain when the euthanisers came for me on the designated birthday.

As far as 'attracting' goes, everyone who performs public politics is aware they're vulnerable to nutcases wishing them harm. That's why they have security teams. It's a different question, although it is relevant that Kirk actively promoted the very conditions making it easier for one of those nutters to kill him.

Victim blaming at it finest.
Do you reserve your victim blaming just for Charlie Kirk or do you extend it to other victims too?
Safe driver who believes in the right to get driving lessons, buy a car, tax it, insure it, drive safely and believes that other people should too, gets crashed into and killed by a reckless uninsured drunk driver, well that's just fine and dandy cause he chose to have a car?
Saying that people should have a right to own guns is 100% different than saying that people have a right to go around killing people with said guns!

Do Tandora, do you still believe (if you ever did) that Charlie Kirk’s assassin was Right Wing or do you now accept he was a Left Wing extremist likely driven by TRA motivation given the Governor of Utahs campaign moments confirming Robinson’s relationship with a Trans Person

Selfish arrogant men with access to guns will always kill in this way for their own Very Good Reasons. Personal grievances, entitlement, personality disorders, failed masculinity, obsession etc. Strange when there’s a murder like this and people do a serious pick a left or right side thing. A young man fires a gun in a place crowded with people to kill someone for his own disturbed reasons likely listed above and it gets twisted into murder being an almost rational and inevitable response to political allegiances.

What’s more shocking to me is the people trying to claim it as a victory for their own agenda. Like the man putting on make up saying “well did they think it would be a bloodless revolution” over trans issues. Or the uni professors who have been celebrating online. Basically openly saying they support and encourage murder of people who they disagree with. Yippee that a fucked up young man has given up
his own life to execute someone, because that outcome is convenient for my opposing opinions. Grotesque.

It isn't victim blaming, @Poetnojo. It might be if I felt Kirk 'attracted' his own murder, but clearly I don't feel that way and have merely tried to explain a bit further.

There is an irony to the fact that he was killed by an assailant taking advantage of the freedom Kirk strongly advocated for; that he became one of the victims he deemed acceptable in the pursuit of this freedom. Same as if a bigwig of the NRA/GOA was shot by a random with a licensed weapon.

Irony doesn't mean celebration. It denotes a rueful linking of cause and effect - it can be facetious or serious, as in this case.

There's no indication he was left wing.

I surmise (because I have no privileged information, only what's been reported) that he was, rather, one of the grumpy 'antifa' or anarchist young men who spend their lives in gaming. Antifa isn't left-wing, it's much closer to anarchism; it's about disrupting authority of any stripe.

I'm also guessing he has no deep thoughts going beyond slogans and memes.

I’ve just written and rewritten my response and I just couldn’t find the right words. And then bam! It hit me “bollocks”. Bollocks is the right word.

The shooter was a white 30 year old guy from Utah whose parents (and whole family) were republican voters and farmers, apparently his family is in the farming business and as you guys must have heard farmers are loosing their farms left and right due to tariffs and loss of workers. Interpret all this as you will. I find very suspicious that since the guy got arrested no one (including Cheeto) has pronounced about this kids "extreme leftie ideology" and it's all being kept very hush hush.

Well that’s pretty much incorrect.

They can't pronounce about his ideology, @vegetarianlouise, because he hasn't said anything yet!

I'm imagining a stream of interrogators trying to bait him into making 'Leftist' pronouncements. God knows what they're actually doing - they must have finished the psych evaluation, as they've given a charging date (Thursday, iirc).

Please elaborate. I'm all ears.

He could perfectly be angry at not being able to inherit his family business because some corporation is going to take it (as it's happening right now in many states?). Just saying.

What are you on about? ‘’Do you accept he was a left wing extremist?’’ - There is nothing to accept as fact as of yet, the news reports are simply reporting what they have been told so far, and given that Spencer Cox is a republican and it is in their interests to spin it as left wing extremism, we can’t ‘’accept’’ anything as fact as it stands.

This is the guy who said on national TV that he had ‘’spent the last 33 hours praying it wasn’t one of us’’ - which suggests he will do anything in his power blame ‘’the left’’ and divide people further. Doesn’t take much to convince you, does it? It’s because it’s what you want to believe.

Besides which, even if TR has a partner who is trans, that wouldn’t necessarily mean he was left wing. It might mean that he’s not strongly politically minded or knowledgeable but is in love with a trans person and therefore took umbrage with CK’s anti trans views.

I’m not saying either way until the full facts are available - if they ever are. If he’s right wing, he’s right wing, if he’s left, he’s left. But accepting things as fact at this stage is ridiculous.

Well he’s not 30 for one

By praying it wasn’t one of us he meant a Utahn. He literally stated that very clearly. Please don’t spread disinformation

Sorry, 22.

Which family members are in farming as certainly not his parents