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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

1000 replies

Havetoagree · 11/09/2025 21:28

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

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17
Unpaidviewer · 12/09/2025 09:17

MeTooOverHere · 12/09/2025 08:47

I am more pro-life than pro-choice but this isn't about me. He didn't say it was a difficult situation and would need to be considered carefully. He was categorically stating that the child would be birthed. He has also said No to abortion in any situation up to and including saving the mother's life. That is extreme.

But to him it wasn't a situation to be considered. He interpreted passages in the bible and believed life begins at conception. They see both "lives" as equal and rather leave it to gods will than "commit murder."

My point is that a lot of people also have these views, theyre not all bad people. There is a reason to why they hold these views. Its black and white to them because of their religious beliefs. Ridiculing and vilifying people for holding these beliefs isn't getting us anywhere, its just adding to all the hatred and division.

Digdongdoo · 12/09/2025 09:17

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:16

The black pilots thing, the black women's intelligence thing, the stoning gay people thing, all these were misleading in some way. If he was as bad as people want us to believe, they should be able to provide honest examples.

Put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate how they have all been taken of context then.

TheSwarm · 12/09/2025 09:18

RingoJuice · 12/09/2025 09:10

This is a typical opinion held by conservative Christians. They believe homosexuality is a sin. Often they’ll qualify it by, love the sinner but hate the sin (ie that’s why he brings up addiction in this context)

Justifying a bigoted opinion by hiding behind religion doesn't make it ok.

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:19

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:00

If the monstrous shoe fits

the context was his alignment with maga tells you all you need to know

Then say he's aligned with maga and people can judge him for that. Don't make up or repeat false allegations.

TheJoyOfWriting · 12/09/2025 09:22

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:16

The black pilots thing, the black women's intelligence thing, the stoning gay people thing, all these were misleading in some way. If he was as bad as people want us to believe, they should be able to provide honest examples.

Agree

EdithBond · 12/09/2025 09:22

Chocolatebiscuit90 · 12/09/2025 07:41

The thing is, I don’t think these conversations DO need to happen. Are guns bad? Yes, common sense. We don’t need to debate them and keep them (they are banned here). Should men and women have equal rights? Yes they should. Is racism bad? Oh, so bad. Should women be able to have abortions? Yes, it’s healthcare.

WE DON’T NEED TO DEBATE THIS STUFF. He was an extremist. I cannot fathom why anyone except a white man who felt a bit powerless and wanted to steal a bit more power from someone else would want to go along with the horror he spouted.

I generally agree.

In a humane society, which has (legally) enshrined human rights and (legally, in theory - but certainly not in practice) thrown off the oppression of patriarchy and racism, why would someone argue for less equality, humanity and empathy?

Unless perhaps they want to deflect from the grinding impacts of capitalism, and the gross inequality and hopelessness it creates, by encouraging white men to feel aggrieved they’ve had to cede some of their power to women and black/brown people?

The road to an enlightened, kind, equitable society has been a long and hard one. Why debate going back to the swamp when we’re well on the way to the top of the mountain? Go back to the swamp if you want and we’ll head on our way.

Of course, people should be able to live as they choose if it does no harm to others. If a woman doesn’t want to have an abortion, or wants to be a 24/7 carer for her children and housekeeper, while the other parent does nothing or little to contribute to that huge workload, she’s entitled to choose to do that. But others should be entitled to choose to have abortions, or share parenting and housekeeping.

Of course, people have a right to express their opinion, if it doesn’t encourage hatred, abuse and violence (surely, the line). They have a right to argue the earth is flat or ruled by shape-shifting lizards if they want. Or that god told them what to think. But, others have a right to disagree or decide whether to debate it.

However, IMHO, it’s dangerous to ignore it when hard-won legal rights (e.g. on reproductive health) are at risk of being removed or when people are being viciously murdered because of who they are or what they believe.

Teaforthetotal · 12/09/2025 09:22

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:13

Ah so it’s Christian fundamentalism, that’s ok then.

unrelated when Muslims say they aren’t ok with homosexuality because it’s a sin is that ok? That’s normally used as a beating stick for Muslims, against Islam

This is also what I find interesting. Lot of these views were extremism. Just in another guise. He seemed to relish the controversy.
(and just to add i obviously don't think he should have been killed for this!).

Boomer55 · 12/09/2025 09:24

Havetoagree · 11/09/2025 21:28

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

No, I hadn’t. No reason why we should have really.

TheJoyOfWriting · 12/09/2025 09:24

TheSwarm · 12/09/2025 09:18

Justifying a bigoted opinion by hiding behind religion doesn't make it ok.

Exactly, I suspect if this were a Muslim or Hindu we were discussing, people wouldn't be quite so quick to defend bigoted beliefs w the excuse of religion.

Hameth · 12/09/2025 09:24

RingoJuice · 12/09/2025 07:22

Merely suggesting that DEI hiring is suboptimal will get you accused of racism here, despite the many examples we have of this literally happening.

This is so wrong. There are far far more poor hires from the non-DEI pool (ie white men) than ever from a DEI candidate list. What they are saying about DEI is what they used to say about women. Or black footballers in the 70s/80s.

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:24

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:19

Then say he's aligned with maga and people can judge him for that. Don't make up or repeat false allegations.

Stop harping on about his direct quotes being false allegations, the actual facts on that quote have been posted and he did say it along with other putrid things all of which have been posted several times.

this is white supremacy here. Kirk showed us who he was so clearly and so so many times yet there are people rationalising and minimising the impact of his words and actions, painting him as respectful and intelligent. So far removed from reality as a belligerent community college drop out that punched down. This is white supremacy that even with video clips of what he said, people are excusing it and almost venerating him as this noble intellectual

Timeforabitofpeace · 12/09/2025 09:25

@ImthatBoleyngirl i certainly did not say that.

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:25

TheJoyOfWriting · 12/09/2025 09:24

Exactly, I suspect if this were a Muslim or Hindu we were discussing, people wouldn't be quite so quick to defend bigoted beliefs w the excuse of religion.

Edited

Exactly white supremacy

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:26

Digdongdoo · 12/09/2025 09:17

Put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate how they have all been taken of context then.

All these examples are dicussed earlier in this thread by various people. The black womens intelligence thing I looked into an hour or so ago and found to be completely false.

TheSwarm · 12/09/2025 09:27

Ddakji · 12/09/2025 09:13

But both here and in the US these “young impressionable” students have universities over a barrel with their opinions. They’ve become cesspits of authoritarianism with those guilty of wrongthink pilloried. Just look at the University of Sussex and its treatment of Professor Kathleen Stock.
So maybe it’s time for those opinions to be challenged.
Bernie Saunders’s statement addressed this. You debate ideas, and if you’re ideas can’t stand up, if you can’t articulate them, perhaps they’re not as valid as you think they are.
We see this time and again with trans activists. Ask one what trans is and they’re still there half an hour later floundering around - that’s if they deign to answer the question at all.

Kirk didn't challenge anything and neither was he interested in doing so.

He travelled around colleges in the US trying to recruit and radicalise impressionable young minds. If he was truly trying to do some good there would be evidence of his opinions and statements evolving over time as he absorbed and interacted with people who challenged him, but that didn't happen.

Kirk spent his life showing us exactly who he was, and when someone does that, you just believe them. No need to try to turn him into something he was not.

YanTanTetheraPetheraBumfitt · 12/09/2025 09:28

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:16

The black pilots thing, the black women's intelligence thing, the stoning gay people thing, all these were misleading in some way. If he was as bad as people want us to believe, they should be able to provide honest examples.

I’ve done so previously on this thread 🤷‍♀️

FairKoala · 12/09/2025 09:29

Havetoagree · 11/09/2025 21:30

Ahhh ok, I’m 41 so maybe the younger generation has!

I knew who he was. I am in my 60s.

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:30

YanTanTetheraPetheraBumfitt · 12/09/2025 09:28

I’ve done so previously on this thread 🤷‍♀️

Look no one likes facts and quotes and context when you’re trying to justify the actions, words and behaviour of a racist… they just get in the way of venerating him as a ‘champion of free speech’

Sleepybear1234 · 12/09/2025 09:30

I was and was gutted to hear of his assassination it was brutal and cruel. I am having a hard time these last few days keeping my mouth shut when friends and colleagues are laughing about it so flippantly it really has opened my eyes as these people profess to be very kind tolerant etc I have no issue if they didn't know him or weren't keen but to laugh etc really is showing me people's true nature x

milveycrohn · 12/09/2025 09:30

Yes, I had heard of him.
Once you watch one youtube video, the algorithm is such that they keep popping up.
Therefore I had watched a few of his videos.
I did not agree with everything he said, tho, especially his views on gun laws.
However, that may because I am in the UK, where we are not accustomed to guns.
He was described as a 'right wing influencer', and his MO seemed to be in going round university campus and having open questions and dialogue with the students.
This, to me, seems a bit weird, but I certainly do not believe in killing those you disagree with.

youwillalwaysbe · 12/09/2025 09:31

Digdongdoo · 12/09/2025 09:15

Yes I had heard of him. Horrible man, racist, sexist, homophobic, white supremacist. Extremism of any variety is unpleasant. He was such a fan of guns, because he was ok with black people killing each other - he didn't think it applied to people like himself.
Nobody should be shot, ever, but he was a victim of his own success.

You clearly haven’t watched any of his stuff - not in any great detail anyway.

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:31

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 09:24

Stop harping on about his direct quotes being false allegations, the actual facts on that quote have been posted and he did say it along with other putrid things all of which have been posted several times.

this is white supremacy here. Kirk showed us who he was so clearly and so so many times yet there are people rationalising and minimising the impact of his words and actions, painting him as respectful and intelligent. So far removed from reality as a belligerent community college drop out that punched down. This is white supremacy that even with video clips of what he said, people are excusing it and almost venerating him as this noble intellectual

I'm not harping on about direct quotes, I'm harping on about the one you made up (or copied from someone else who had).

LateTubeAgain · 12/09/2025 09:32

Goldwren1923 · 12/09/2025 07:55

Never heard of him before.

i think closeted (and open) racists are latching onto his case because they need something like that to latch on. Plus a bunch of Putinbots

Very sorry for his children, especially as his daughter was just there, and his death is now for all to see in all gory details.

but can’t believe that his death is more publicised that another school shooting!

Yes, racists and homophobes and misogynists (including the resident ones on MN) are emboldened by people like CK. But but but free speech…he didn’t swear blah blah blah.

So many decent people die every day. Children are being killed in conflicts all over the world. Yet bigots are falling over themselves to idolise this man who spread hate in the name of debate. We can all see them.

He didn’t deserve to be shot. He was not a good person. Both can be true.

Chambala · 12/09/2025 09:32

Digdongdoo · 12/09/2025 09:15

Yes I had heard of him. Horrible man, racist, sexist, homophobic, white supremacist. Extremism of any variety is unpleasant. He was such a fan of guns, because he was ok with black people killing each other - he didn't think it applied to people like himself.
Nobody should be shot, ever, but he was a victim of his own success.

Do you know that there are far more black people who murder white people in the US, by a factor of 7 or 8 , than white people who murder black people. This is despite the fact that the black population is tiny in comparison to the white population. Yet all we hear about in the news is George Floyd etc. Media is heavily biased, and racist against white people.

YanTanTetheraPetheraBumfitt · 12/09/2025 09:33

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 09:26

All these examples are dicussed earlier in this thread by various people. The black womens intelligence thing I looked into an hour or so ago and found to be completely false.

But I looked into it and found clips of him talking about this and have linked to it on this thread. So i don’t think it is false. Maybe we have different ideas of what’s false and what isn’t I guess. But to me someone who says If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because affirmative action?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024

And talks about 4 black women inc Michelle Obama saying they don’t have the brain power to be where they are and are only there because of affirmative action

and talks about black pilots and worrying if they’re qualified enough (when we know the stuff about dei lowering standards is false and a racist trope)

that person is racist and has talked negatively about black women’s intelligence….i don’t know how much more proof you need because it’s there in black and white.

Heather Mac Donald to Charlie Kirk: “White civilization has decided to engage in the great replacement theory, and to go down without a fight”

https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/heather-mac-donald-charlie-kirk-white-civilization-has-decided-engage-great

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