Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

[Havetoagree]

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

I’d only heard of him via mumsnet when he was over here having a debate at, I believe, Oxford university.
Sounded like a nasty little twerp.
The killer has given maga a martyr. Far better to discredit someone than murder them.

This isn't about free speech. CK was perfectly free under law to say the things he said, and if he hadn't happened to have been saying them in a place where the state has failed to prevent lunatics arming themselves, he'd be alive and still saying them. Or perhaps he'd have been murdered for his wallet, or by an armed intruder. His death was due to the fact that some people in society commit murder and access to arms facilitates that.
If we are concerned about erosion of our rights to speak freely, we would do better to worry about the state sanctioned arrest of individuals based on their social media comments.

I hadn't heard of him. I was willing to give him a chance as I have seen how for example, JKR's words were twisted into 'she wants trans people to die' which she doesn't say, so I thought I'd watch his show segment on black women and I watched the whole thing and I am appalled. He is an unapologetic racist with a big dose of misogyny in there too.
Guns, abortion - both freedom of choice things (or should be) in my mind but racism is 100% wrong and damaging society over there and everywhere.

someone posted on the thread the context of that actual very real quote and he was talking about Michelle Obama - it’s on the thread go find it.

you need to just accept Kirk for who he was a white supremacist Christian nationalist, but I guess you don’t want to identify with that movement so you’re trying to make him into something he wasn’t so you don’t have to say you’re aligned with those beliefs also

Never heard of him

I'm the same age, op, and I hadn't a clue who this guy was either.

I haven't read them, but if you're not misleading people about his views then what I said doesn't apply to you.

Just because we don't subscribe you your warped, woke, cultist, view of the world, that does not make people with more traditional opinions racist or misogynist.

Imagine being a parent of a school
shooting victim and reading the outpourings of adulation for CK. Must feel horrific.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Who are the resident misogynists on mn? Mostly it’s women speaking up for women’s rights, tg. Thanks to mnhq too on that.

Correlation does not equal causation. We also know that people living in poverty or having a lower standard of education are more likely to commit crimes including violent crimes. Black people are more likely to be living in poverty and have lower levels of education and systemic racism plays a part in that. Maybe we should be looking at how to combat social exclusion rather than finger pointing?

I sleep perfectly well at night thank you as my brain is not wracked with feeling offended about stuff that people who live in the real world, just don't give a shit about.

No.

I have seen him on socials before, didn’t know his name, but thought he spoke eloquently and respectfully

True.

But Kirk repeatedly said and did lots of things which were racist, homophobic and misogynistic.

So labelling him as such is entirely reasonable.

True. By being shot he has now achieved undeserved hero status.

But the “black women intelligence thing” isn’t false. Although it would be easier if when you’re discussing something you gave a direct quote of what you’re discussing rather than the “black womens intelligence thing”. He certainly spoke negatively about black women’s intelligence…..and you say that’s false? Or is it a specific thing you believe to be false. Hard for me to know what you’re referring to to be honest.

I hadn't heard of him. Though I always watch the news.

Ben Shapiro is a similar right-wing influencer. The sort who likes to "debate" but doesn't like actually being challenged while doing so. He flounced off when Andrew Neil asked some probing questions, clearly couldn't handle an experienced journalist.

We have some very relevant examples in the US of DEI hiring. I have endlessly repeated that of the FAA, but more famously, look into Claudine Gay’s hiring at Harvard.

When you look at other factors beyond merit, you will invite these questions.

This murder has revealed so many people have a total lack of moral clarity.

It doesn’t matter one bit what views someone has, you either think cold murder is wrong or you don’t.

Anyone writing ‘but…his views on x or y were bad’ is totally lacking any moral clarity.

You either agree with getting murdered for your opinion or you don’t. It doesn’t matter what the opinion is.

I can well imagine that you live in a world where people don’t give a shit about misogyny and racism. As a non-white woman bringing up children, I do. Have a good day.

You don’t want to get into this. You really do not.

You've articulated what I was thinking. I'm sorry he was murdered, it was an act of evil made worse by it happening in front of his poor family. At the same time, and horribly sadly, it's not unusual in America. They have a known gun problem and very little appetite to make changes to fix it.