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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

209 replies

CC943 · 11/09/2025 21:22

My daughter’s school called me today (she’s 4) she’s been at school two weeks- saying they have a safeguarding concern.

Another child in the playground of the same age (4) said she overheard my daughter saying ‘mummy hurt me’ and told a teacher so the teacher pulled my daughter aside and asked her if mummy hurt her and said yes on the arm- and pointed to her arm. (Nothing on her arm, I have not and would not ever hurt my children)

I completely understand that they have a safeguarding protocol- but AIBU to think it was completely wrong to out wright ask a child ‘did mummy hurt you?’ Because my daughter lives in imagination land 99% of the time- if I asked her if her teddy hurt her and where she would say yes and respond the same way!

I just felt really taken back by the phone call from safeguarding asking me ‘ is there any thing or any reason or event that has taken place for your daughter to say you hurt her and her arm?’

I am not disagreeing about the safe guarding point of view- it’s more the way it was handled in actually asking ‘did mummy hurt you?’ I feel like many kids that age would just waffle on and agree with it.

i feel so worried about it now. I have asked my daughter why she said that and she doesn’t even seem to remember? She’s just waffling on about other things from her day? She never says things like this at home. And it’s made me feel uneasy that a child has brought this information forward that could be untrue as I can’t see her saying that then by asking her like that it has basically put words into her mouth!?

does this mean they are raising a safeguarding concern? I didn’t even think to ask these questions as I was in shock when receiving the phone call. I don’t know what to expect I just feel upset that they didn’t handle it in a different way for a child this age.

she’s moving to a new school Monday (our catchment school she was on the waiting list for called 2 days ago with a last minute placement) which now looks terrible when her report is sent over with this on! I’m really worked up about it I just feel like it was handled wrong. If she said it directly to or infront of an adult I understand, but a child ? Then question directly ‘does mummy hurt you?’ AIBU?

OP posts:
Spinmerightroundbaby · 13/09/2025 06:52

Raindancer411 · 11/09/2025 21:29

I just had safe guarding training and was told we shouldn’t use leading questions. They may have just said she was over heard saying it, rather than a direct question?

I think quite reasonable of them to investigate but it does sound as though they may have used leading questions and not handled the situation very well.

AloeVeraAloeFred · 13/09/2025 14:19

EnidSpyton · 12/09/2025 23:09

A child reported to the teacher what they heard the OP's child saying.

That is in safeguarding terms, a potential disclosure. You need to establish whether that potential disclosure is true.

To do so, you will need to ask the child a series of establishing questions.

'X told Mrs Y that she heard you say mummy hurt you. Did you say that?' - Establishing question.

Child says yes.

'So you did say that mummy hurt you. Is that true? Did mummy hurt you?' Still an establishing question, as the teacher is using the words the child themselves has used.

This is, in all likelihood, what the conversation at school actually looked like. The teacher would have had to ask these questions in order to find out whether the report from the other child was true. There was no other way to do so.

The OP emailing the school criticising their safeguarding procedures based on a bunch of people on mumsnet not knowing the difference between an establishing and leading question is going to make her look rather foolish.

Show quote history

I disagree about the appropriateness of the question. If nothing else, it is entirely closed and it suggests a subject matter (mummy hurting the child) to the child, from an adult (when it remains possible that the child never said such a thing spontaneously at all). I feel an establishing question has to follow a topic which the adult is sure the child has introduced themselves.

It would be much less suggestive/leading to the child, to ask a more open question such as:

"What did you say to X just now?"

Or if that really prompted nothing, then in that context (the child not recalling anything worth saying about the conversation with X) they could be asked something like

"Did you speak to X about getting hurt just now?"

Or even
"Have you been hurt?"

These questions could have given her the opportunity to say something like "I was bitten by a shark on my face" that would have de-escalated the situation.

In your example a 4 year old has basically said "yes" twice in a row. In my experience that's the likely outcome of virtually any two closed questions asked in a row.

I recently spoke to a 4 year about her day at school. The conversation went like this:

"Did you enjoy your first day at school today?"

"Yes!"

"Did you get to meet your new teacher today?"

"Yes"

We then discussed who she had played with and what she had done. In fact, she hadn't been to school, she was just enjoying my attention. That's 4 year olds. You start a conversation where they only have to say "yes" at first and they may well get into and continue it with a whole load of nonsense. That's why 4 year olds shouldn't be asked leading closed questions in a safeguarding context.

And in this case, thankfully, it seems that everyone does understand that the "yes" doesn't mean very much, as nothing has been done to safeguard the child short of noting the incident and speaking to mum. Those actions could still have been taken, without the asking a 4 year old a question to which they are bound to answer yes, revealing absolutely nothing because that's 4 year olds for you. So we have added upset to mum for no reason. It could have upset or confused the child and made her more likely to repeat something that isn't true in future (seems unlikely, given she can't recall it!) but these small risks are worth taking into account.

I don't think it is worth feeding back to the school. Teachers aren't going to be perfect all of the time and clearly the interaction is well intentioned. But I can understand the OP's irritation.

EnidSpyton · 13/09/2025 15:14

@AloeVeraAloeFred

I appreciate what you're saying about 4 year olds and their reliability but the reality is, in a safeguarding context, you have to accept every disclosure at face value and then do what you can to establish the facts before making a decision about what action to take. It is not up to the person hearing the disclosure to judge whether the disclosure is true or not, and safeguarding 101 is clear that we always treat every disclosure as if it's true until we can know with 100% certainty that it's not.

In your example, by saying 'what did you say to X just now?' you're confusing the child as they could have said a multitude of things as part of that conversation. How do they know what you're referring to? You'd get nothing useful out of such a vague question.

If you need to establish whether a child said a particular comment, it is not inappropriate to ask a direct, closed question. Small children in particular are easily confused and using vague wording in questions to skirt around topics can end up in children not understanding what you're asking and therefore not being able to tell you what's really going on.

In this circumstance, there is nothing leading about saying 'X said you just said Y. Did you say Y?'

If the answer is yes, then you go into more detail with follow up questions. An experienced teacher with proper training in safeguarding would know how to then tease out whether the 'yes' is the child affirming reality or the 'yes' is the child just going along with an imaginary conversation or wanting to please the adult.

Ultimately none of us know the approach the school took because we are hearing a four year old's version of a conversation filtered through the OP. As you have pointed out, a four year old is not the most reliable of witnesses, so assuming that the school has dealt with the situation inappropriately is jumping the gun somewhat.

BertieBotts · 13/09/2025 17:14

marnieMiaou · 12/09/2025 07:53

Absolutely everything regarding the child's wellbeing is logged on special software (usually CPOMS) . For example, Charlie was frusrated because he couldnt do his maths, Fiona's mum called in to say she didnt sleep well, Amy said Sophie called her a 'mean name' , Toby's parents are separating, as well as incidents of suspected poor parenting or even abuse
This details exactly what happened and who said what. They are reviewed by the safeguarding lead who posts her response of what to do next. Your daughter's CPOMs file will be sent to her next school. Changing schools after a child has made a disclosure like this may well be seen as a red flag

I really doubt the teacher came out with a bald question, 'is mummy hurting you'. More likely they asked her about her alleged disclosure, which she may have felt confused about, meaning they had to repeat it to her ie 'did you say to child x 'mummy is hurting me'? 2 very different things. They could not have asked if her arm was , as many others have suggested, because she only indicated the arm in response to questioning.

Show quote history

OK fair enough, I'm out of date and didn't realise that about the software.

Why would changing schools be a red flag? Presumably OP must have set that in motion months ago - she mentioned a waiting list. You don't just decide to move schools and get a new placement on Monday.

carchi · 13/09/2025 20:18

AloeVeraAloeFred · 13/09/2025 14:19

I disagree about the appropriateness of the question. If nothing else, it is entirely closed and it suggests a subject matter (mummy hurting the child) to the child, from an adult (when it remains possible that the child never said such a thing spontaneously at all). I feel an establishing question has to follow a topic which the adult is sure the child has introduced themselves.

It would be much less suggestive/leading to the child, to ask a more open question such as:

"What did you say to X just now?"

Or if that really prompted nothing, then in that context (the child not recalling anything worth saying about the conversation with X) they could be asked something like

"Did you speak to X about getting hurt just now?"

Or even
"Have you been hurt?"

These questions could have given her the opportunity to say something like "I was bitten by a shark on my face" that would have de-escalated the situation.

In your example a 4 year old has basically said "yes" twice in a row. In my experience that's the likely outcome of virtually any two closed questions asked in a row.

I recently spoke to a 4 year about her day at school. The conversation went like this:

"Did you enjoy your first day at school today?"

"Yes!"

"Did you get to meet your new teacher today?"

"Yes"

We then discussed who she had played with and what she had done. In fact, she hadn't been to school, she was just enjoying my attention. That's 4 year olds. You start a conversation where they only have to say "yes" at first and they may well get into and continue it with a whole load of nonsense. That's why 4 year olds shouldn't be asked leading closed questions in a safeguarding context.

And in this case, thankfully, it seems that everyone does understand that the "yes" doesn't mean very much, as nothing has been done to safeguard the child short of noting the incident and speaking to mum. Those actions could still have been taken, without the asking a 4 year old a question to which they are bound to answer yes, revealing absolutely nothing because that's 4 year olds for you. So we have added upset to mum for no reason. It could have upset or confused the child and made her more likely to repeat something that isn't true in future (seems unlikely, given she can't recall it!) but these small risks are worth taking into account.

I don't think it is worth feeding back to the school. Teachers aren't going to be perfect all of the time and clearly the interaction is well intentioned. But I can understand the OP's irritation.

Edited
Show quote history

Totally agree. There is absolutely no place for leading and/or closed questions.in these situations. Only a professional who has been trained in this area should be in charge of finding out the situation. If I was the OP I would be seriously taking issue as this could happen again if this particular teacher is allowed to continue with their inappropriate approach.

Skodacool · 13/09/2025 21:20

The first rule in safeguarding is to not ask leading questions. OP is now walking on eggshells because there’s now a report about her DD. The teacher should know better.

YJsMum · 14/09/2025 14:36

The school staff should be trained to not ask leading questions.. They handled it badly and unprofessionally.. It's good that they are proactive but they didn't follow procedure.

Walkaround · 18/09/2025 08:08

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for a teacher to directly ask a 4-year old child if their mother hurt them just because another four year old says they overheard them say that to yet another four year old child. That’s just a farcical game of Chinese whispers, thanks to the teacher’s idiotic leading question.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/09/2025 08:20

I would email a soft complaint about the way the question was done, taking the line with another child could have the evidence ruined for court if a teacher asks such a leading questionn

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