Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

[CC943]

My daughter’s school called me today (she’s 4) she’s been at school two weeks- saying they have a safeguarding concern.

Another child in the playground of the same age (4) said she overheard my daughter saying ‘mummy hurt me’ and told a teacher so the teacher pulled my daughter aside and asked her if mummy hurt her and said yes on the arm- and pointed to her arm. (Nothing on her arm, I have not and would not ever hurt my children)

I completely understand that they have a safeguarding protocol- but AIBU to think it was completely wrong to out wright ask a child ‘did mummy hurt you?’ Because my daughter lives in imagination land 99% of the time- if I asked her if her teddy hurt her and where she would say yes and respond the same way!

I just felt really taken back by the phone call from safeguarding asking me ‘ is there any thing or any reason or event that has taken place for your daughter to say you hurt her and her arm?’

I am not disagreeing about the safe guarding point of view- it’s more the way it was handled in actually asking ‘did mummy hurt you?’ I feel like many kids that age would just waffle on and agree with it.

i feel so worried about it now. I have asked my daughter why she said that and she doesn’t even seem to remember? She’s just waffling on about other things from her day? She never says things like this at home. And it’s made me feel uneasy that a child has brought this information forward that could be untrue as I can’t see her saying that then by asking her like that it has basically put words into her mouth!?

does this mean they are raising a safeguarding concern? I didn’t even think to ask these questions as I was in shock when receiving the phone call. I don’t know what to expect I just feel upset that they didn’t handle it in a different way for a child this age.

she’s moving to a new school Monday (our catchment school she was on the waiting list for called 2 days ago with a last minute placement) which now looks terrible when her report is sent over with this on! I’m really worked up about it I just feel like it was handled wrong. If she said it directly to or infront of an adult I understand, but a child ? Then question directly ‘does mummy hurt you?’ AIBU?

I would but I'd be polite about it.

Probably say something like: Thank you for looking out for DD and following safeguarding procedures. I am really happy that your staff diligently look out for the wellbeing of their pupils. I would like to highlight a concern though as I was told by you that a member of staff asked my daughter a leading question and wondered if we can discuss this further. Tel no: 07xxxxxxxxx, thank you

Almost every child in a primary school will have something on their 'file' that could possibly be a safeguarding issue but is probably nothing - coming in with an injury, saying someone hurt them, telling the teacher they didn't have breakfast.
Schools are cautious and document everything.

When DS was nursery age he told everyone at nursery that I’d pushed him over and hurt his elbow. Technically I did, but he’d left out the bit where it occurred as I’d grabbed his hood to stop him running into the road ( not the best way but was the only bit of him I could reach without letting go of the buggy containing DD). All cleared up fairly quickly once they spoke to me, and I’m glad they followed up.

There isn't any other way they could've dealt with it really. You have to imagine what it's like for kids who really are getting abused. It's a big positive the school are doing their best to deal with even small concerns.

I know it feels like an insult, but it really isn't.

Exactly - it’s frustrating, it’s aggravating, but it’s a symptom of a school that cares.

Also it’s a bit odd to call a four year old your best mate - that’s kind of messing up
boundary issues for the future - she’s your child who I am sure you love to bits. But you are the parent and everything that comes with that.

You shouldn’t use leading questions, but are you sure that’s what she was asked? All the teachers and other adults in school I know would not phrase the question in that way.

DS is significantly speech delayed due to autism, and really clumsy and bruises so easily - we now know this is because of delayed clotting factors but we didn't at the time.

He started school with limited vocabulary, and when he needed a break and was getting flustered and just wanted a time out he would tell the teachers "I want a smack, I need a smack, give me a smack"

They held him back at pick up and I was pulled in where I was given a thorough investigation.

I opened his back pack up and pulled out his crisps and said he is asking for a snack. They took his bag next door and I could hear him saying "yes! A smack! I need a smack!"

My heart was in my arsehole, I wanted to ground to swallow me whole. They soon got the measure of my son when they would try and get him to do something he didn't want to do and he would scream HELP ME! like someone was chasing after him with an axe.

If they really did ask "Did Mummy hurt you?" that would be very wrong and they shouldn’t have. But it’s pretty unlikely because one of the most important things school staff are taught in safeguarding training is not to ask leading questions.

I could be wrong of course, but my guess is that they asked her if she had said that to the other child, which isn’t the same thing. But once an adult in school has been told something like that they are obliged to follow it up and to contact you about it (unless they thought that would put your child in danger, which they obviously didn't).

Don’t worry about it. The new school will see that nothing was done about it because there was no evidence of any problem.

If my boy whos 8 misbehaves he gets a wack if he does something good he gets rewarded he knows he does and no school is gonna tell me any different I got a few whacks when I was a kid for misbehaving and never did me any harm

Well, it did, because it taught you that it's acceptable to hit smaller, weaker people.

Yes it did…..it made you beat your own child. He must be petrified of you.

Meh, I don’t think this is a given. I used to get a smack for bad behaviour, as was the norm in the 90s. I never feared my parents for a minute.

I don’t smack my children though. I can honestly say it has never really occurred to me. I don’t think smacking was ever a good thing and it surprises me that it happened but it’s not necessarily the case that smacked children fear their parents.

True but the child only pointed to her arm when asked before. The teacher only overheard her saying her mum hurts her, she didn't say where until promoted so a question asking in general about whether she gets hurts is better.

OP just because bruises cannot be seen on the skin they can see it doesn't mean physical abuse can't be happening. It may be from a while ago and bruises have faded (its hard to report abuse), maybe it's on a location they can't see, maybe the kids skin is darker and so some bruises aren't prominent, maybe it's emotional abuse. My point is there are many things that could be happening and it's important that we don't only ask if we see bruises as many children would be missed if we operated that way.

It's not nice. But it's necessary. Almost always it's nothing, until you find the one kid that actually is getting hurt. And one child over hearing can put a stop to their suffering.
Don't take it personally, they're just trying to protect children. They've had safeguard training, they know what they're doing.

Agree. She should have said “did your arm get hurt? What happened?”

Id report it to the head. Just so they can refresh their training etc.

You're overthinking this. Lots of kids will say things to school/nursery that the staff have to follow up on whether or not they think there's any basis in them. My personal experience of this was when my older one had a gigantic bruise on their temple, a really nasty one, and told the staff I'd hit them with a metal shopping basket. Strictly speaking, that was true, but what DC1 failed to mention is that they'd come up suddenly behind me just as I was turning (and DC1's head was just at the height of the shopping basket 😬).

They have to check because, as shown by this thread, some people purposefully hit their kids and they think it's fine. And unfortunately behaviour like this often escalates.

@TheLivelyViper the teacher didn’t over hear anything a child from her class told the teacher my daughter said mummy hurt her then my daughter was questioned ‘ does mummy hurt you’ and she pointed to her arm. She never told anyone about an arm it’s like in my mind she felt a bit of pressure to answer so did and just pointed at her arm. That’s what bothers me. The teacher told me this on pick up

If they are genuinely concerned about a disclosure the teacher should not be asking your child direct questions, nor advising you that they are doing so. There is a specific process to follow which will be on the school website.

You should be thankful that they're taking such care over her safety. It could save a child's life.

Did you tell Joanne your arm is sore? Yes
Can you remember how that happened? Or just why is your arm sore? Or has anyone hurt you? A 4 year old would be able to answer that.
Did mummy hurt you is an awful safeguarding question, children are likely to agree if given what they perceive to be a right answer, especially from a teacher. What if someone was hurting this child and it wasn't mummy? Was mummy hurting your arm, no, oh ok then.

Kids talk all kinds of rubbish OP. Safeguarding teams are trained to identify what is a genuine concern and what is crap. They just had to follow up on what your DD said to make sure nothing was amiss, especially as they don't know her well yet.

FWIW I walked out of school in my first week, saw my mum and said no way am I coming home with you hahahaha I had just had a great day and didn't want to go home but it was mortifying.

My DD’s nursery do this also and it annoys me. They also really take note of your reaction..

If she's changing schools on Monday it is unlikely to follow her there. It's just a storm in a teacup, I would ignore it and move on.

It is a horrible thing for you to go through but they have to take it seriously. The staff will realise 4 year olds live in cloud cuckoo land 99% of the time but they must follow the protocols.

Once it all blows over though put a Subject Access Request in to the school to check what they've been saying about you and if anything is untrue you can insist they correct the information.

No one who has had any safeguarding training should phrase a question like ‘did mummy hurt your arm?
‘How did you hurt your arm or can you tell me what’s happened to your arm?’ Would be more appropriate.
I had a teacher speak to me at the end of the day about a safeguarding incident when mine were smaller. My youngest child had gone into school saying he was starving, he hadn’t had breakfast and there was no food in the house….
Luckily he has an older sibling in a different year so they went and had a chat with the older child.
He was most perplexed to be asked if he had eaten breakfast that day, to which he replied yes and they asked him to tell them what he had had (porridge).
They had asked him what everyone else had eaten and he said that we’d all eaten the same, but that his little brother wasn’t impressed because it wasn’t his favourite but I had run out of the chocolate pancakes and cereal he liked so the choice was porridge, toast or crumpets….
They asked if he was packed lunch or school dinners that day, he was packed lunch as younger brother was entitled to free school meals because of age. They asked if they could see it, so he went and got it.
They soon realised that my youngest wasn’t in fact starving and that I did have food in the house…. They mentioned it to me incase my eldest child came home and mentioned the interest in his breakfast 🤦‍♀️
i said I would much rather they checked then just assumed the little one was exaggerating, little ones to say random stuff.. I wouldn’t worry too much about it the school do have a duty of care, but they do need to be careful how they phrase things