Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

[CC943]

My daughter’s school called me today (she’s 4) she’s been at school two weeks- saying they have a safeguarding concern.

Another child in the playground of the same age (4) said she overheard my daughter saying ‘mummy hurt me’ and told a teacher so the teacher pulled my daughter aside and asked her if mummy hurt her and said yes on the arm- and pointed to her arm. (Nothing on her arm, I have not and would not ever hurt my children)

I completely understand that they have a safeguarding protocol- but AIBU to think it was completely wrong to out wright ask a child ‘did mummy hurt you?’ Because my daughter lives in imagination land 99% of the time- if I asked her if her teddy hurt her and where she would say yes and respond the same way!

I just felt really taken back by the phone call from safeguarding asking me ‘ is there any thing or any reason or event that has taken place for your daughter to say you hurt her and her arm?’

I am not disagreeing about the safe guarding point of view- it’s more the way it was handled in actually asking ‘did mummy hurt you?’ I feel like many kids that age would just waffle on and agree with it.

i feel so worried about it now. I have asked my daughter why she said that and she doesn’t even seem to remember? She’s just waffling on about other things from her day? She never says things like this at home. And it’s made me feel uneasy that a child has brought this information forward that could be untrue as I can’t see her saying that then by asking her like that it has basically put words into her mouth!?

does this mean they are raising a safeguarding concern? I didn’t even think to ask these questions as I was in shock when receiving the phone call. I don’t know what to expect I just feel upset that they didn’t handle it in a different way for a child this age.

she’s moving to a new school Monday (our catchment school she was on the waiting list for called 2 days ago with a last minute placement) which now looks terrible when her report is sent over with this on! I’m really worked up about it I just feel like it was handled wrong. If she said it directly to or infront of an adult I understand, but a child ? Then question directly ‘does mummy hurt you?’ AIBU?

And she never told anyone her arm hurt until the teacher asked did mummy hurt you she said yes then was asked where then pointed to her arm.

You’re not being crazy.

They’ve really failed here. Asking leading questions and then calling and saying “she said you hurt her”. If you were abusive, that would be a huge mistake

As someone who has been trained in safeguarding this question would ntk be appropriate. We are meant to ask open questions rather than yes or no questions.

In this case I would have taken child aside and said 'i heard you tell x you got hurt' or something like that which would open the conversation without affirming what you already heard.

Best practice would've been to log what the other child said then ask your child 'are you hurt?' and start the conversation from there.

I just asked my daughter did miss *** hurt you she said yes I said where ? She pointed to her neck. Exact example of what I mean. I should have done this infront of the teacher yesterday. I feel so let down they asked her that question…., I’m going to leave it now as to them they will probably wonder why I’m contacting considering she’s left anyway.

She felt she needed to answer so pulled an answer out.

Have only read 1st page here, so if i’m repeating what some1 else says please ignore/delete:
Is it possible that ‘other’ child who reported the fantasy hurt, could themselves have experienced something. It seems significant to me that the interrogating teacher is wording the question in a VERY leading way.

Have you read the thread? The teacher handled it incorrectly. She asked the child a leading question that would result in an unsafe answer should there have been a genuine safeguarding issue.

Rule #1 in safeguarding training is that you should not ask leading questions. Such young children are particularly likely to give yes answers to leading questions, as they're natural people pleasers, particularly with their teachers

So many people suggesting wording that is only possible in hindsight. The friend hasn't heard anything about an arm. They reported the child saying mummy hurt me.

"Did mummy hurt you?" is a leading question. However, it's also the only question that they could use with the information they had. With an older child, they might have said "what is it like at home?" "Does anyone ever hurt you at home?" But this is a four year old. The child pointed to an arm which had no injuries.

Therefore, there was no reason to escalate further, but a conversation with the parent is exactly what we are trained to do in these situations. The reason for this is that some parents, when told about this, might admit to it. It sounds mad, but I've had many parents tell me that they hit their kids, because they think that's fine, or because they're admitting that they're completely overwhelmed. Other parents might be really aggressive about it. Either of those situations are reasons to escalate to social services.

A parent who is baffled and distraught is not a red flag.

I don't think they've gone about this in a bad way. It was either ask a leading question or ignore it completely.

You are just spiralling now and saying the same things over and over again. If you talk to the setting about what has happened, how you think they have put words in her mouth and how they needed an answer so they have pulled one out of her…all of that will also go on to the safeguarding system. So just be aware of that.

The adult definitely should have asked an open ended question.

a kid reported to an adult about your kid. It would be absurd if they didn’t follow up! What more do you want from the school?! the adults spoke about it, kept you in the loop and that’s probably the end of it. Why make a big fuss? You’ll just look guilty.

Absolutely everything regarding the child's wellbeing is logged on special software (usually CPOMS) . For example, Charlie was frusrated because he couldnt do his maths, Fiona's mum called in to say she didnt sleep well, Amy said Sophie called her a 'mean name' , Toby's parents are separating, as well as incidents of suspected poor parenting or even abuse
This details exactly what happened and who said what. They are reviewed by the safeguarding lead who posts her response of what to do next. Your daughter's CPOMs file will be sent to her next school. Changing schools after a child has made a disclosure like this may well be seen as a red flag

I really doubt the teacher came out with a bald question, 'is mummy hurting you'. More likely they asked her about her alleged disclosure, which she may have felt confused about, meaning they had to repeat it to her ie 'did you say to child x 'mummy is hurting me'? 2 very different things. They could not have asked if her arm was , as many others have suggested, because she only indicated the arm in response to questioning.

I think the fact that they phoned shows it was a routine enquiry rather than a suspicion. Not sure about the leading question, but it was a direct follow on from what the teacher heard DD say, not out of the blue.

I really doubt the teacher came out with a bald question 'is mummy hurting you'.

At 21:31 OP posted:
"the teacher told me when I collected her that she asked her ‘does mummy hurt you?’"

Questioning children that young "safely" (i.e. without inadvertently affecting their answers) is notoriously difficult. Police, lawyers and judges generally have specialist training in order to do it, so yes, I agree with you that the approach of asking leading questions was not ideal. But then how else are they to do it? They presumably haven't been trained in what is a very difficult skill in any event.

I also take issue with saying you have never hurt your child. Presumably you have accidentally hurt your child at some point in her 4 years?* This is probably something that safeguarding should have tried to ascertain but also it seems silly to go in with your approach. Could your child have been talking about a time you have accidentally hurt her, for example pulling her hand away from something hot?

*(this has reminded me of a particularly horrendous incident when my youngest was two and I had to take her to A&E covered in blood caused by an accident that was entirely my fault. But accidents do happen and there was no issue. Other than my extreme guilt. Said child is fine - it was horrible but looked a lot worse than it turned out to be)

Changing schools and the school offer of the school we wanted happened before this. It was delt with in the morning and they got the contact details of the new school to transfer everything over. This happened later afternoon. Thanks everyone for the advice.

Well that's third hand information isnt it? Tbe op was upset and i can imagine she might just have heard 'is mummy hurting you?', rather than the context. She is overreacting by hastily (foolishly in my opinion) changing schools over this, and justifying this to herself and us, by painting them in tbe worst possible colours.
Every teacher is well trained in safeguarding, and i do not believe they interviewed her dd in the way op imagines. The new school will instigate safeguarding procedures if your dd raises a similar cause for concern, because they legally have to. Changing school does nothing but raise further suspicion.

You are right to be annoyed and they should know better. Asking leading questions to children is a sure way for them to tell you what they think you want to hear.

That is the reason why police, doctors, well qualified counselling professionals and I would have thought teachers, do get training on how to question children when there are safeguarding concerns.

And also, you don’t go straight to a potential aggressor saying the child said this or that as that put the child in further danger.

Having said that… if you know your DD was not hurt, just ignore, unless you didn’t tell the school you were moving schools before the incident.

It's not third hand. The teacher was literally telling OP what she had said.

And OP isn't moving her child for this reason. The place at her original first choice school had been offered and accepted before this incident.

Changing schools happened before this incident. She’s been top of the list for the school for 8 weeks and a place was offered to her. No suspicions as school was aware of this before ‘incident’ occurred. The new school is 3 minutes from our house unlike the current school just left which is 25 minute drive- complete no brainer for us! Please read post and comments before commenting sounds like you’ve skimmed through and made incorrect judgement

@CC943 The only reason they are falling over their arses to follow up every thing remotely connected to abuse is because of their massive failings in the past that led to child deaths.

Invite them around. Show them your house, talk them through your routine. They will leave you alone when they see that all is well there. There is nothing to be afraid of.

I had thought they are trained never to ask closed questions. My daughter keeps falling off playground equipment and breaking her am, and in A&E the approach is consistent - they say something along the lines of "oh no, how did that happen" and wait for her to tell them. I get the impression there's quite a big process behind it, where they're looking for any signs that she's been told what to say. So asking "did your mother hurt" you seems very weird particularly for children that age.

Agreed. It was handled completely wrongly by the teacher, but because it was reported, it has to be faced, regardless.

They are right. You do want them to follow up, you do want them to ask questipns, you do want them to check on your daughter. We all want and need this. Because far too many children have suffered terribly at the hands of their carers. You have nothing to worry about, so don't. It is that easy
Though, does your DD arm still hurt? Did she fall recently? Could it be broken? Even just a hairline fracture? Or a splinter, bite, recent vaccine, anything that could hurt without affecting her arm movements?

I think you're missing the original point - the daughter did NOT hurt her arm.