Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

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My daughter’s school called me today (she’s 4) she’s been at school two weeks- saying they have a safeguarding concern.

Another child in the playground of the same age (4) said she overheard my daughter saying ‘mummy hurt me’ and told a teacher so the teacher pulled my daughter aside and asked her if mummy hurt her and said yes on the arm- and pointed to her arm. (Nothing on her arm, I have not and would not ever hurt my children)

I completely understand that they have a safeguarding protocol- but AIBU to think it was completely wrong to out wright ask a child ‘did mummy hurt you?’ Because my daughter lives in imagination land 99% of the time- if I asked her if her teddy hurt her and where she would say yes and respond the same way!

I just felt really taken back by the phone call from safeguarding asking me ‘ is there any thing or any reason or event that has taken place for your daughter to say you hurt her and her arm?’

I am not disagreeing about the safe guarding point of view- it’s more the way it was handled in actually asking ‘did mummy hurt you?’ I feel like many kids that age would just waffle on and agree with it.

i feel so worried about it now. I have asked my daughter why she said that and she doesn’t even seem to remember? She’s just waffling on about other things from her day? She never says things like this at home. And it’s made me feel uneasy that a child has brought this information forward that could be untrue as I can’t see her saying that then by asking her like that it has basically put words into her mouth!?

does this mean they are raising a safeguarding concern? I didn’t even think to ask these questions as I was in shock when receiving the phone call. I don’t know what to expect I just feel upset that they didn’t handle it in a different way for a child this age.

she’s moving to a new school Monday (our catchment school she was on the waiting list for called 2 days ago with a last minute placement) which now looks terrible when her report is sent over with this on! I’m really worked up about it I just feel like it was handled wrong. If she said it directly to or infront of an adult I understand, but a child ? Then question directly ‘does mummy hurt you?’ AIBU?

Oh yes, no question they had to follow up, just badly handled.

I remember as a child about 3 or 4 years old (in my house thankfully) singing a rhyme I'd made up about my mother being a member of a certain terrorist organisation that was (presumably) in the news a lot at the time.
Newsflash - she wasn't! I just liked the alliteration "mummy is a member of..."
My parents were horrified.
Imagine if I'd said that in school!

They were already changing schools.
Sorry that's already been said

Her arm didn’t hurt. She only said her arm hurt and pointed to it when asked by the teacher did mummy hurt you and where. Nothing on her arm. There is a small bruise in a different area of her arm which is very faint and looks like an old faint one as it’s kind of grey very faded but very small like a pencil end. I actually went to the extent of taking photos of her arms and a video last night just for my own record after this.

Just like this morning when I asked if miss hurt and she said yes and pointed to her neck. Can assure you her neck isn’t hurting and the teacher didn’t hurt it. I just wish I done that yesterday and made a fuss while there of why it would be asked so direct but just wanted her out of there to be honest.

Do you know that the teacher "pulled your child aside and asked 'did mummy hurt you?'" or is that your four-year-old's description of what happened?

I work in social care and this happens a lot more than you would think. Most of the time it will be a quick call from a social worker, or they may want to speak with your child. The school have a duty of care to report any concerns no matter how ridiculous. Its scary and upsetting but the majority of the time it's a quick chat and case closed.

@DolphinOnASkateboard the teacher told me this when I questioned what happened on collection that she asked my daughter and what my daughter responded with. My daughter has absolutely no recollection of it at all and just seems blank when I ask her. I also asked when did mummy hurt your arm can you remember and she just says ‘you didn’t’ Or ‘no’ I haven’t asked her any further as I don’t want to make it a thing for her.

I think you are (understandably) spiralling because you feel accused. But the evidence points to you having done nothing - there was no mark on her arm and your daughter didn’t have anything more to say. I don’t think there is any parent out there that hasn’t accidentally hurt their child (yanked them away from the road, got their hair caught in a car seat etc etc). I’m not sure there was much of a better way for school to handle this as if they asked a vague question they wouldn’t have got an helpful answer. Plus, they are around small children all day long and know they say random things. They have been open and informed you, it sounds as though the case is closed and has not been passed to social services. The school will have seen kids are actually being abused, it’s their duty to follow everything up but they will use their judgement and experience in deciding if to escalated

Leading questions- safeguarding no-no

It seems clear you have not read the OP’s posts.
The school change was due to take before this and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the teacher’s questioning of OP’s child.

As to the school’s handling of the suspected harm, the issue is that they asked a small child a leading question. This is against safeguarding protocol.

Bearing in mind the quote below is about the premise that the child himself or herself has disclosed an issue of abuse, not another child reporting what they overheard as in this case, this is from the Safeguarding Network:
https://safeguarding.network/content/dealing-with-a-disclosure

Asking questions ...
It is OK to ask questions to clarify what you are being told (for example if they are using words that you do not know the meaning of or may have a different meaning). However we need to make sure that we use the child / young person's language and words and do not ask leading questions (e.g. "Did it hurt when they hit you" - this is a leading question as they may not have thought about how they felt).

Use open ended questions such as "tell me ...", "explain to me ..." or "describe to me ..." (remember the TED acronym).

So do not worry.
I am not there, so of course you know better, but why would she say it hurt at one point if it didn't? Sometimes little children are not very good at saying something "hurts" or bothers them, if they are the shy type. You haved checked thoroughly, found nothing, so do not worry.
Better the school raises an issue to check than let a child be abused. It is not easy.
Get ready to have this type of questions from every single health provider that treats your child in future. And to have your childs asked separately.

Exactly this! As a childminder we're told not to ask any leading questions such as " Did Mummy hurt you?" and to respond to the child in such a way that they will talk to us again if they need to; something like " thank you for telling me that, if there's anything else you need to tell us then I will listen to you"

My ex was reported to social services due to the amount of bruising at school. His dad was a single father in the 70s when that was a bit unusual. He was a really clumsy child, social worker came out to the house and was interviewing the Dad when he cycled past the window, a bit look at me, hit something and went sailing over the handlebars. Hopped up dusted himself off “I’m fine” and back on the bike. Social worker just said he really is clumsy, closed the file and left .

They have to address it if it's raised as they could miss on that actually has come from a not very nice circumstance. I would just pick yourself up and move on. They shouldn't be asking leading questions but if a safeguarding lead got involved they would probably see that it was leading questions and go from there properly.

We had a similar phone call from school. A child overhear my DS saying his dad had hit him for losing his trainers and he had no trainers after that. The teacher was told. He was pulled from class, asked loads of questions and I was called. It supposedly happened at a party but we hadn't been to a party in months. Its turns out some kids from school hid his shoes at the party 4 months previous and were teasing him about it that day. The safeguarding lead came to the conclusion my DS was embarrassed and trying to make the other children feel bad about hiding his shoes. I could produce about 4 other parents who were at the party that would verify DS shoes went home with him (noone even noticed the kids had hidden them for all of 2 seconds) and he had been in fact wearing those shoes for the last 4 months for PE.
The same DS also likes to remind people regularly that I accidently scratched his face with my engagement ring once when I hit him in the face. This happened 2 years ago. It was a small scratch by accident while trying to catch my DS from falling down the stairs!

Thank you for your helpful insights. Just to clarify to others who think I have a problem with safeguarding, I absolutely don’t and completely understand this protocol they have to take for the safety of any child.

My issue is with the direct question used that basically made my daughter feel the need to answer yes and it creates a story- especially from a teacher or someone in authority. Just like she answered me this morning ‘yes’ when I asked the same question but with said teachers name. That is what has upset me as she would probably say yes if I asked her if she ate a frog for lunch at school. If they worded it differently and openly for her to express any concerns from her own mind then this wouldn’t be the outcome. It’s created an issue because of incorrect approach from a teacher.

I’ve had safe guarding training and that would be like putting words into the child’s mouth. It’s a very unreliable way of getting the truth out of a child. Of course they should look into it but not ask a direct question like that. If you ask any child that age did mummy ever hurt you then chances are a lot of them would say yes

You asked your child if her teacher hurt her? I think you're going to have more fall out from that than you will from the teacher questioning her about mummy hurting her. Sadly we have to ask these questions and there are many times that it is accurate and the child is telling the truth. You don't hurt her so you have nothing to worry about! but now theres a chance she will tell another child or teacher that a teacher at old school hit her.

If you are a teacher you need to go back to safeguarding training - you do not ask children leading questions. ‘Did mummy hurt you?’ is a leading question

Op I totally get why you are upset ahd contrary to popular opinion I don't think that the school handled this well or have a good handle on safe guarding.

One member of staff wording a question poorly on one occasion does not mean that the entire organisation does not have a good handle on safeguarding.

OP, Im a DSL in a school and you're right that the Teacher made a mistake by asking your child a leading question. She was absolutely right to follow it up, she was right to speak to your DD and to be transparent with you that she had done so. But she should have phrased the question differently. For example "X told me that you said Mummy hurt you, can you tell me what happened?" The member of staff in question most likely acted with the best of intentions, but if this was my school I would want to have a conversation with them to make sure they understood the proper way to handle a disclosure and offer support. Staff can often be really anxious about having safeguarding conversations and nerves can be a factor in wording things poorly. They might need a bit of support from a DSL to ensure they are confident to manage these situations in future.

You mentioned some anxiety about social services becoming involved. School are supposed to inform parents prior to making a referral so in theory if this was the case you should have been made aware. Honestly, I'd be very surprised, based on what you've said, if school felt a referral was necessary in this case. The threshold for intervention from Children's Services is a lot higher than most people think, even if school did refer I very much doubt any action would be taken.

Go and see what they have to say op. I'm sorry you are in this situation, but the most likely development is that the truth will out. DD will explain it was when you tickled her with a piece of cotton wool or something. I don't think its likely she will continue any inadvertent comment into a big fib.

They are doing the right thing.

It's a horrible feeling, but it is NOT about you.

I'd rather be called every day for something that turned out to be nothing than for a single instance of actual child abuse slipping through the net.

No, that's a leading question and absolutely should not have been asked.

Entire investigations have fallen through and child abusers have walked free because of these types of questions creating an unreliable narrative.

The teacher needs retraining in safeguarding.

the question - If put like that was leading - I work in safeguarding and it’s not good practice .

Ooh, good to know.

I was going to say that the only thing I’d have a problem with is the wording of the question and I’m surprised they asked it that way. Surely it would have been better to approach in a relaxed way and say something like “How are you Maisie are you having a good day?” Then let her chat a bit and then ask some much more open like “Have you hurt yourself at all recently or has anybody hurt you?” Oh dear! Tell me how that happened…”

Try not to worry though and be wary of getting angry with the school. If you want to raise a query about the wording of the question, and I think you should, I’d do it down the line and not as an immediate reaction as it could be interpreted as defensive and deflective.

Don’t question your daughter any further about what happened. You don’t want to upset her and you also risk her telling whoever speaks to her that mummy isn’t happy that she told on her.

It’s just a process that must be gone though and if there is nothing to find, it will leave no lasting impact. Children say things like that a lot, particularly relating to food and not being fed or getting meals. It has to be checked out because sadly it’s sometimes true but it won’t be assumed it’s true.