Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

[CC943]

My daughter’s school called me today (she’s 4) she’s been at school two weeks- saying they have a safeguarding concern.

Another child in the playground of the same age (4) said she overheard my daughter saying ‘mummy hurt me’ and told a teacher so the teacher pulled my daughter aside and asked her if mummy hurt her and said yes on the arm- and pointed to her arm. (Nothing on her arm, I have not and would not ever hurt my children)

I completely understand that they have a safeguarding protocol- but AIBU to think it was completely wrong to out wright ask a child ‘did mummy hurt you?’ Because my daughter lives in imagination land 99% of the time- if I asked her if her teddy hurt her and where she would say yes and respond the same way!

I just felt really taken back by the phone call from safeguarding asking me ‘ is there any thing or any reason or event that has taken place for your daughter to say you hurt her and her arm?’

I am not disagreeing about the safe guarding point of view- it’s more the way it was handled in actually asking ‘did mummy hurt you?’ I feel like many kids that age would just waffle on and agree with it.

i feel so worried about it now. I have asked my daughter why she said that and she doesn’t even seem to remember? She’s just waffling on about other things from her day? She never says things like this at home. And it’s made me feel uneasy that a child has brought this information forward that could be untrue as I can’t see her saying that then by asking her like that it has basically put words into her mouth!?

does this mean they are raising a safeguarding concern? I didn’t even think to ask these questions as I was in shock when receiving the phone call. I don’t know what to expect I just feel upset that they didn’t handle it in a different way for a child this age.

she’s moving to a new school Monday (our catchment school she was on the waiting list for called 2 days ago with a last minute placement) which now looks terrible when her report is sent over with this on! I’m really worked up about it I just feel like it was handled wrong. If she said it directly to or infront of an adult I understand, but a child ? Then question directly ‘does mummy hurt you?’ AIBU?

What do you suggest ‘common sense’ is in this case?
I would not consider asking leading questions to be ‘common sense’. Safeguarding policies, procedures and training exist for a reason. And any adult who is unsure of what to do should consult their DSL/ safeguarding team / safeguarding policy to reduce their chances of making mistakes.

The point is that they're NOT supposed to ask the question that the teacher asked. It's a leading question and that's one of the most important things that you're taught in safeguarding training.

The teacher was plain wrong.

If they were planning to report to SS, they would have to tell you first.

Yes they phoned me both times to tell me
they had done safeguarding reports to SS. New preschool were shocked. To be fair, SS didn’t seem interested.

I was incredibly upset and felt unjustifiably accused of bad parenting. I particularly couldn’t understand the bruising issue. There were a few tiny bruises but nothing out of the ordinary.

The teacher took no care at all. If the child had actually been abused, the teacher's evidence would be absolutely useless and might well trash the investigation.

You cannot ask a child a leading question if you're following up a safeguarding concern. The child's answer becomes meaningless and invalid. That teacher needs re-training otherwise a child who is actually being hurt by a parent is going to be badly let down.

Actually there is, safeguarding training is no leading questions, no suggestion of who hurt you.
She could’ve been asked ‘what happened to your arm’ or ‘who hurt you’ or ‘how did your arm get hurt’.
These should’ve been the leading questions. Obviously they’re will be occasion to be more direct but this does not sound like one of those occasions.

Staff are right to ask questions if they hear something that may flag a safeguarding concern, but asking leading questions (“Did mummy hurt you?”) is inappropriate & goes against safeguarding protocols & training.

This

Asking a 4 year old child a leading question is not safe guarding and it doesn't keep children safer. On the contrary. If you asked my four year old if taylor swift called him a poopoo head to his face he would say yes. If you asked him if a unicorn scratched him with his horn he would say yes. He says yes to pretty much any random thing. 4 year olds are probably the worst of unreliable narrators.

The problem however with Asking 4 year olds leading questions is that not only are you unlikely to get the truth but you also run the risk of implanting ideas into their head. If you ask with enough conviction or authority the 4 year old might actually start believing it.

Op I totally get why you are upset ahd contrary to popular opinion I don't think that the school handled this well or have a good handle on safe guarding.

This happened to a friend of mine ..her DH was brushing the DC hair and she told her teacher daddy hurt me in the bedroom
Safeguarding was called ,police involved.dh told he couldn't go back to the home .police searched the house and took away items of the child clothes.
Took months to sort out ..then dad was allowed home ..no apologies,no we did the wrong thing . nothing... everyone knew ..gossip horrendous..
Two kids in primary,both had to change schools ..well they didn't have to ..but parents felt relationship with school had broken down ..
No injuries on child ever ...she just hadn't liked having her hair combed

I would not worry.
Some concerns are raised every other day about children , everything is recorded to build up a picture .
It's only if there is a pattern emerging that there would be anything done about it.
I know it can be very upsetting .

If a parent was hurting her, I'm not sure it would be a great idea to tell them what their DD had disclosed at school?

It’s horrid having those calls but as you recognise they are done for your child’s best interest.

They have to log a response.

At around 6yo my fs said I’d hit his round the head with his bookbag as we left.

They asked me if there had been an incident with ds bookbag and hitting him round the head.

I said “yes, I had his bookbag in the hand I was opening the front door with and ds decided to duck under and the bookbag hit his head and he’d even told me I’d “hit him” with it at the time” 🤷‍♀️😂

Those who work with children are very aware of their literal words and their imaginations and can piece together what happened easily.

But they can’t risk missing something because it makes us feel uncomfortable.

I don’t understand everyone saying OP should be grateful. At the end of the day they’ve put words in her DD’s mouth and made a pretty serious accusation with absolutely no reliable evidence.

OP, I’d be contacting them to let them know they’re gone about this in entirely the wrong way. None of the sycophantic bollocks about being oh so grateful, because it’s rubbish. If they did this for a child who was actually being abused, it could end up in their death.

They should ask open ended questions not leading ones so you’re right about feeling uneasy with “did mummy hurt you?” But I think you’re in a tricky position here as if you bring this up with school you’ll look defensive. I know it must feel awful but remember schools get this all the time and the current and new school will know that children get things wrong sometimes

That's so scary......

My children are older now (teens) and this has happened a few times. I’d MUCH rather be asked, called by social services etc and talk through things as I know my children are safe, some other poor children absolutely do need this support to keep them safe.

I think this is insane. It’s gone way too far imo and the person who thought you could ask a 4 year old that sort of question and get a reliable answer is really an idiot. I don’t understand how there’s not enough staff yet they have time for this sort of faff?? From an outside perspective I find the UK primary school system mad. It’s full of over reach into families lives’ and not enough effort on actually helping children learn key life skills.

Of course they handled it correctly. There’s a reason they have such a high bar and it’s to stop actual harm. This has happened to me before - I get that it’s horrid for all involved but we all have a duty of care to make sure it’s as simple as possible for the school. If you kick up a fuss, what if they turn a blind eye to real abuse next time ?

Oh my goodness. This is madness

A teacher, trained in safeguarding, asked your four year old a leading question about being abused?.

Really?

Did the same teacher examine your daughters arm by any chance?

Often these things have a reasonable explanation - kid was about to run in the road so mum grabbed her arm for example, kid just remembers "mummy hurt my arm"

Or, frazzled stressed parent admits they lost their temper and slapped child on the arm - opens the conversation for safeguarding to offer support (parenting course etc) before situation escalates.

What if their false accusations leads to someone harming themselves, or a relationship breakdown?

The question should have been phrased more like ...' tell me about your arm '
Or 'tell me why your arm hurts ' ..I heard you tell your friend your arm hurts...can you tell me why
But we are all human...no excuse I know .

Thanks everyone. Makes me realise I’m not thinking about this and being crazy about it. I feel I want to send an email but like someone above said, I don’t know if it comes across defensive to them.