Differences (rep Ireland) Irish V UK

[Sillysandy]

I am Irish living in Ireland. My DH is British, he is an immigrant who grew up in London but had lived for 20 years in Ireland when I met him.

I discovered mumsnet about 8 years ago when I took on a sort of stepmum role and was flabbergasted at some of the stories, attitudes and opinions.

I still found the site extremely helpful, often giving me clarity on situations which would cause me a lot of angst.

However when I talk to friends and family members living in the UK I realise that a lot is to do with cultural differences.

It's amazing given how close geographically we are.

Attitudes to money, marriage, divorce, wedding gifts, abortion, house purchases, communication with friends are so far from anything I've seen in my circles.

To give my pov; (these are all generalisations) we get married later, we stay married, we don't consider abortion unless it's very particular circumstances, we are indirect about money "I'll get this one, you can get the next one (but it is LAW you only accept if you are buying back)" and sending bank details for a small amount would be horrifyingly rude, you only attend a wedding with a card containing at least 100 euro pp, you usually get married in your mid thirties, your kids are mainly all with the one father, we hide behind humour until we know a person very well, we don't report benefit fraud, we laugh a lot more... That's just off the top of my head.

The other thing is that most Irish people know all about English Irish historical tensions but many English people are utterly oblivious.

YABU You're talking out of your ass
YANBU The differences are enormous

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this. In my line of work now I do a weekly call with my UK based team and I always notice subtle differences in attitude.

Winds me up honestly, I know plenty of people who have trouble believing someone from Derry is just as Irish as someone from Galway. Free state mindset is pervasive.

Yes I know I was one of them. The gut wrenching pain of it is so at odds with what I hear when non Irish people reference having a termination because the timing wasn't right or whatever. It took me decades to move on and I think truthfully I didn't heal till I became a mother aged 40. I am not saying I represent all Irish women but this was my experience. I was haunted.

Do you have any insight at all how sanctimonious you appear? r reread your last post.

One pointed out that thousands and thousands of Irish women had terminations you respond by saying that may be so but when Irish women have them they suffer they’re torn apart.whereas. British people? They treat it like deciding to have an extra chocolate eclair or something. You’re not light and fluffy you’re very dark.

"The gut wrenching pain of it is so at odds with what I hear when non Irish people reference having a termination because the timing wasn't right or whatever. "

My best friend runs an abortion clinic in England (alongside her other obs/gynae duties) and the trope of "nipped in for a quickie abortion in my lunchbreak because a pregnancy clashes with my ski holiday" is an absolute load of bullshit. Some people are more mentally affected than others but it's not taken lightly by staff or patients.

The fact that you've used that skiing analogy just proves my point on how different your environment is on this matter.

I'm not saying it's easy or non traumatic for British people.

I'm saying it was such a bloody ordeal for us and up to not too long ago. There are still residual effects of living in a country where so much hypocrisy, secrecy, shame exists. The law has changed twice in my adult life, first we had to vote to even be allowed travel for abortion and get information for a termination. It's very recent that we can get an abortion without traveling overseas. Women have died in hospitals in our country because they wouldn't terminate a pregnancy.

It was so different and it's still a controversial topic to this day.

"The fact that you've used that skiing analogy just proves my point on how different your environment is on this matter."

My environment is pretty much the same as yours. I'm in Northern Ireland.
I'm saying that there is stereotype perpetuated by some people (a diminishing number thankfully) over here of English women just trotting along for a convenience abortion. Which is bullshit.

I think there is an awful lot of guilt and shame attached to abortions for more women here. That’s not surprising considering most people had a catholic education and would have come across pro life messaging within that at some point. In my school we were shown a lot of pro life images. It is definitely going to have an impact.

I for one think this mindset will change as I think I was part of the last generation who has this type of education. It’s not that English women find abortions easy or are frivolous about them. It’s that Irish women can beat themselves due to shame attached to this.

Definitely correct about the weddings and money thing. My DP is Irish and we’ve been to a few weddings of his friends in Ireland, and that’s definitely been the case. One of his cousins who I was speaking to said she paid the hotel where the reception was with her wedding gifts, and that it was painful handing over €18000 in cash! Basically the ethos is that you pay for yourself/your family to be there, the bride and groom shouldn’t be out of pocket. It was my (English) brother’s destination wedding earlier this year and they made it clear they didn’t expect any gifts, but DP insisted on putting a few hundred euro in a card and giving it to my brother, as he would say it’s just the nature in him 🤷‍♀️.

Re weddings, I went to my sister's nephew's wedding in Ireland and was invited to the family breakfast the next morning. I was horrified that they were tallying up who had given what and who hadn't "covered their plate". A couple (from England) had given one of those Oxfam donations to a school in Africa (the bride and groom were both teachers, so this seemed quite fitting to me) and the mother and sister of the groom were appalled, calling them tight bar stewards and "they shouldn't have an hours luck". They were happy with my gift, I'd more than covered my plate which they weren't expecting 🤣

I don’t think that’s in any way usual, though. I’ve been to more weddings here than I could count, from the mid-eighties to last year (DH’s many nieces and nephews are marrying like it’s going out of fashion), and endless post-wedding breakfasts, and I’ve never seen that. Which is not to say people don’t do it in private, only I’ve never seen anyone tallying up a list the day after!

I’ve got a fairly scattered friendship group, and have given €150 or €200 in Spain and around the same in Italy, more at a Greek wedding, less in Finland. From what I remember.

Never heard of an Irish divorce but that's funny, like an 'Irish Goodbye' !

Why is it funny?

Glad to hear it's not a norm, I felt very icky being party to this. Of course they were very nice to everyone's face. Mother of groom had a tulle bag made (it matched the tiny favours bags) to collect the wedding money in. I gave €200, only because dsis had warned me of the plate thing and apparently the family only had me down for €100 so they were very pleasantly surprised. The next wedding I'm invited to I might make them a Live Love Laugh sign in lieu of cash, my presence is the real present, after all! 🤣

I'm Irish, living in Ireland and I was married to a British man.

I'm going through a divorce and I've had 3 abortions.

I lived in the UK for 19 years and we are very different.

Irish people are much more down to earth.

I have lived in Ireland now for 21 years and I much prefer it here.

Well, maybe they were planning to pay the hotel in cash and so needed to figure out how much they had before settling up? Someone up the thread said someone had done this, though I would have said no business would want a giant bag of thousands and thousands of euro in cash that they'd have to count, keep in a safe and then take to a bank...? (I'd have done it discreetly in private, either way!)

Totally give them a LIVE LOVE LAUGH sign next time. Everyone should have one...

But I've certainly been at weddings in other cultures where you handed over your envelope to a designated relative of the couple at a table at the reception, and they opened it then and there and wrote down the amount on a list. Very businesslike. The only wedding involving a Greek bride I've been at did not feature something that I gather was, at one point, traditional, where guests pinned paper money on her dress during a dance (but this may be long outdated.)

I think dj and any musicians get paid in cash. And random people like a musician. I was at a Christmas wedding once where Santa arrived. Hotels get staged payment?
Hotel charge stupid amounts plus vat.

The money was being used for the honeymoon, but that's not really the point! To me, making a list of who paid what was very crass, and commenting on the amount people gave even worse. I understand it might have been done between the close family, but to do it publicly in front of me, who isn't even family was really bad!

Agree about the wedding gift amount thing. It still seems a gigantic amount of money to me but I understand it is a cultural expectation.

I don't get what you're saying about buying drinks though. As so many have said that's no different from any expectation in any pub in England. Same with paying dinner bills. It's the same general expectation that if one person pays then the other will next time.

Well, that’s not a cultural difference, it’s one family. I’m trying to think what country it was where you handed your envelope of cash straight to a relative who wrote down the name and amount. I didn’t think that was crass, just how other people did it.

I’m Irish and you’re right, that was really bad.

I think you quoted the wrong person?

I'm Irish and I would consider that disgraceful.

For what it's worth, DH and I got married a few years ago mainly to square away legalities after a couple of decades together. We didn't care who gave what, just that people came to share our day. Maybe it's us being a bit older than the Irish average but at our ages, I couldn't feel right expecting a cash amount from people. People were very generous and I think no differently of those who bought me a bed set to those who were incredibly generous in a card.

It was the same for us. That family was incredibly crass.

Glad you’ve found happiness now xx

I've been at a wedding where you pinned money but it was on the bride and groom. It was in Cyprus.

Good to know that rounds culture and 'you get this one, I'll get that one' is the same.

I think in Ireland the "let me get that" is a bit like the chatting to strangers. It looks like more than it is. You're buying a drink for them but with the expectation it's returned at some point so it's not exactly a gift. Youre chatting away being friendly but don't actually want to be friends.

I remember hearing a very amusing Polish woman being interviewed on the radio who had lived in Ireland for 30 years. She thought her Irish colleagues were so caring when she arrived always enquiring after her wellbeing. She would stand at their desks answering the question in good faith. She then noticed them gradually avoiding her over time. At some point she realised "how are you?" meant nothing more than hello.