To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

Sorry, I am very sleepy deprived - I thought this was a behaviour getting 'worse' compared to the old days thread.

The data is always going to be difficult to determine as so much of it is subjective, based on what parents feel or not even defining poor behaviour to then quantify.

I don't think it's a surprise to anyone though that private schools can select fairly compliant children, chuck out the non compliant ones, get parents to pay for SEND assessments then get extra exam time / give them stimulants so they can churn out work (whereas poorer state school undiagnosed SEND children will just be told they're naughty) etc, etc, etc.

And let's not forgot there was an actual court case where a student took Michaela School to court over restricting her freedoms. The court transcripts show there was something of a mutiny in the school that led to it. She lost as the judge said anybody who didn't like the rules could go to another school, but the point is that it isn't some utopia with perfectly happy and compliant children.

It has always been compulsory to be fair but it was (in my experience) a lot slacker in years gone. When I was at school in the 80/90’s there were kids who didn’t bother going to school or only went occasionally. It was never followed up.Some of those kids (looking back ) had issues . The kids who attended every day wanted to learn or had parents who valued education.

Even in the 2000’s when my older dc were little you could take them for a day out or holiday without issue. So if they needed a break you could facilitate that. Nowadays you need to prove they are ill and face fines/court for taking them out ‘unauthorised’
it was just a bit more flexible in the past which probably helped those not suited to the classroom environment.

Two out of four of my next door neighbours' children go to a Michaela-like school. One has very poor behaviour at home (constantly shouting, throwing things, disrespectful to parents) and receives several detentions a week at school. The fact that the detentions have been going on for four years suggests that the behaviour policy doesn't change behaviour permanently. The school's GCSE and A level results are at the Michaela level.

Sorry are you accusing independent schools of drugging pupils:
"give them stimulants so they can churn out work"

bet it's not unheard of!
let's face it stranger things have happened

Hmm not quite sure I remember by dad getting a visit from the truant officer as my brother had been bunking off primary. That would've been about 83/4

I'm not surprised. I don't think Michaela-like schools are the answer, but the OP seems to.

Wow, would love you to provide evidence that independent schools drug pupils. Because otherwise it's just wild, random and deranged accusations

The article pointed out what we all already know, that wealthier families are able to pay for private SEND assessments and access SEND supports fast.

Stimulants will make almost all humans able to focus and work loads - that's why they're abused as 'study drugs'. Then add the ADHD stuff on... I am saying there is a massive difference between a child in a state school who has undiagnosed ADHD and will have to wait 4 years for a diagnosis while getting called naughty and disruptive, and a child in a private school with ADHD (with lower level ADHD behaviours, as they wouldn't be in the school to begin with otherwise) who has a private assessment and access to medication that will almost certainly improve the quantity and quality of work immediately.

Its was an optional extra but we decided it was worth paying for The DC to spend 5 years whizzing their tits off at school

I was very anti Michaela-type schools but trying to be open-minded (unlike BP), I can see that what Katherine Birbalsingh does is not random eg silent corridors so pupils arrive at lessons calm and ready to learn, family lunch with pupils serving and clearing away because not all pupils experience that at home. In my view, there isn't 'an answer'. Parents who pay have choice and can choose what works for their child. The state sector needs to offer choice too, and does in some places, not withstanding catchment areas.

That's not how the PP presented their statement and then then clarified it to my Q : "are you accusing independent schools of drugging pupils?" the response was " bet it's not unheard of!
let's face it stranger things have happened".

🤣🤣

I think I missed that on the optional extras list at DDs school

Agreed, we need a variety of schools with a variety of approaches to suit different children. Some need quiet and some need to be moving around, etc etc.

As regards 16 to 18 year olds: until recently, if you didn't want to study, you didn't stay in school/college beyond 16. Now that some form of education is compulsory till 18, you have a fair few young people who resent having to continue studying and may take it out on teachers and more academically hardworking fellow students. Like some 15-year-old 'ROSLA' pupils in the 70s.

That's obviously not the whole story, as discipline problems have also increased with younger pupils, even in primary school; but I think it may contribute.

The problem is the whole ‘SEN children should be allowed the opportunity to be included in mainstream’ has now turned into SEN children having no choice but to stay in completely unsuitable mainstream settings, when they desperately don’t want to.
My DS is autistic with fairly severe learning difficulties. He has a full-time 1-to-1 TA which helps but doesn’t change the fact mainstream school isn’t suitable. He has been very disruptive to others in his earlier years at primary, there have been incidents where he’s had huge loud meltdowns and a couple of biting/hurting others whilst we were waiting for his EHCP (that itself took a year)

I have been desperate for him to go to a specialist setting but it’s been a firm no from the local authority, despite all the evidence. Thankfully it looks as though he will have a better chance getting into one for secondary school but he’s spent his whole primary life in an unsuitable mainstream setting. I know lots of other SEN mums in the same situation.

My child goes to a state primary in a middle class area. There were 6 year old calling each other the C word. 2 of the worst have been moved to specialist provision. They caused chaos for the whole year and shouldn't have ever been placed in mainstream.

So to address a few points here:

• wealthy parents exist in state schools. In fact there are more wealthy parents using state schools than independent. This isn't a state Vs independent resource issue

• the % of SEND in independent is not significantly higher than in state if you exclude the data set from the SEN specialist schools which are classed as independent but can only be accessed via an EHCP and therefore skew the data

A lot of kids start vaping at 10/11 now. The illegal, under the counter vapes (because shops can’t be seen to be selling the real ones as it’s illegal) are filled with lead and other chemicals that effect kids developing brains and causes an increase in aggression.

No, but teach them separately from the motivated, well-behaved students.

This will help both sets.

I have changed school this year after 28 years in a school in a very deprived area. I’m still in a state school, but it’s very different. The behaviour is really good. In my previous school I used to see children cry in frustration because of the constant disruption. It was heartbreaking and the reason I left.

Would this be the case for school Sixth Forms though? I imagine it’s still only the kids who get a certain standard of GCSEs who can continue on to A-levels.

That’s a very simplistic response. I think they’re the answer to lots of negative behaviours. Consequences and management of them is missing in so many schools. Hence this article and content within. Clearly not every single child would respond to such a place. But frankly it’d be a damn sight better than the shit holes around the uk today. That is Not a reflection on teachers btw. (Most) Teachers are incredible.

Better provision for sen children who can't go to mainstream school

Better provision for sen children who need extra support in mainstream school

More resources for education so class sizes are smaller and teachers are retained and children are taught by teachers who have specialised in that subject rather than tas or teachers in areas that are over subscribed (pe)

Less inspections report writing and testing in schools so teachers can spend time on teaching rather than prove they are teaching well

Studies on schools that have turned behaviour round to find out what actually works in the long term, results fed into teacher training etc

Alternative options for children who aren't academic