To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

It seems to me that nobody is currently being educated properly by allowing disruptive kids to stay in school - the disruptive kids aren't learning anything much and neither are the ones who aren't being disruptive!

Yes. Nothing's perfect but it works wonders both as a deterrent for those who mess about and support for those who need for more time to learn.
And it means teachers don't face impossibly wide achievement gaps in the classroom.

We need to.embrace competition as a positive way of incentivising brighter pupils with detailed grading. Who in the world cares about achieving "greater depth"? It's the kiss of death.
You need to get 72% so you're motivated to catch Paul who got 83 and then Joanna who got 87. And even Hamish who got 93 still has the incentive of something more to aim for.

It's also.super important and character building to realise when you're not good at something and acquire the skills to confront it. We can't have people entering the workforce without ever having been told their work is totally awful in a certain area. They need to learn to take direct criticism without melting into a puddle.

I read an article years ago that said for each one disruptive student in a class, the collective yearly earnings for the rest of the class decreases by £100,000. More than one disrupter and it starts adding up. If you're a smart and contentious child in a class with several disruptive students, your lifetime earnings, education and future prospects can be harmed. It's so unfair. As a teacher, it is making my job hell.

But it can be done the Michaela school (link above) shows us that. It’s not private. It’s not selective. It’s in a deprived area. But the students do well.

Why do the government hate it so much? I honestly don’t know. Why would parents hate it? I don’t know that either.

I've already answered about why government hate it.

That’s interesting. I wonder how your child’s private school would deal with my 11 year old daughter. She has autism and ADHD and struggles to listen and concentrate. Would she be got rid of efficiently?

That’s depressing. Do you have setted classes at your school? Do they make any difference? I think that (being in sets for ability), and my parents are the only reason I did well enough in the end.

Even then many moons ago, it was tough on teachers (my mum was one but in a different school). Never mind now.

What do you think of the Michaela school?.

No because she would most likely cope better with the small class sizes, calmer atmosphere etc. Many parents chose independent schools precisely because they can offer more SEND support eg 1-2-1 attention
Why are equating SEND with poor behaviour?

They wouldn’t be in the mainstream classroom, but they have an excellent, well funded learning support department so place could be found there.

Controversial but.....
Lower the leaving age back down to 14.
End of Year 9 take a Leaving Exam in "everyday" English Language and Maths.
If you can pass it - you can leave and get a job.
The ones that mess around are often bored and "over" school.
Release them out into the world.

^ this

This makes me very sad. So unfair.

@potato08 blimey.... someone agrees with me 😂
I don't normally get that.

Nothing to do with underachieving.

My dc school has a zero tolerance for pratting round now. So many kids are shown the door. I see it as a good thing. If they're not prepared to behave then the school isn't prepared for them to disrupt the pupils that do.

I don't think state school heads just shrug their shoulders... They can't do anything about it because legally every child has a right to an education. It's the system that's broken.

My friends sons p4, mainstream, classroom (Scotland) gets evacuated at least once a week because 1 same child in the class has violent meltdowns .Wtaf!!
The other 24 kids in the class are losing so much learning time and its not fair.

I agree that leaving school at 14 should be permitted, provided tests in Maths and English are passed. BUT a solid route back into education would be needed for all those who realised that they needed further training/education and FE has been hacked back ruthlessly.

yanbu it’s harder now to avoid. Really sad for dc

@Papyrophile yes if a 14 year old leaves they should perhaps have the option of going back to do their missing years later on for free (up to the age of say 25).

This is among the silliest suggestions I have seen on MN. Good luck with attracting staff to work in the school's full of disruptors.

It’s not just leaning that is lost, kids are becoming traumatised. Could you imagine sitting in a classroom wondering when a violent meltdown is about to happen? And they wonder why anxiety is through the roof.

But as ever the only person who is ever considered in this is the child who has the meltdown, not the other children or the teacher. Where are their rights?

We have enough NEETs as it is. Do we need more?

Have you ever spoken to staff at PRUs? Many find the job thoroughly satisfying. The kids aren’t under any pressure to get results. Academic expectations are low and many of them actually start to enjoy school. And the teachers start to enjoy teaching them too.

Agree. The amount of kids who mess around at school because learning isn’t cool, only to regret that very shortly after.

You need to remember that private schools can discriminate against disabled children. If we included all of the children that private schools have failed (without even taking into account all the DC they refused entry to) they wouldn't look so great. Mainstream schools often have to mop up those DC and they are included in mainstream schools statistics. If we want schools to thrive, the Government needs to provide more funding for support with SEN and funding for schools in general.