To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

It's refusing to hold students accountable for their own decisions and instead pushing it onto teachers which has got us into this mess and caused a recruitment crisis. If a child is actively disrupting lessons and being disrespectful, that's not the fault of the school- they made a choice.

It’s not about underachieving children ffs!

The post is about the unprecedented rise in poor behaviour, which disrupts the teaching and learning in state schools.

Behaviour has NEVER been as bad as these past few years…it’s out of control in some schools/areas. I know…I teach (well, try to!) in one such school. We have fewer staff than ever (our academy trust has announced that it is no longer replacing support staff when they leave, and will no longer employ supply teachers when a teacher is off!) This kind of approach is devastating in schools.

We have a massive amount of SEND needs, with SEND budgets slashed to breaking point, a mental health crisis that has spiralled exponentially since covid and successive governments failing to tackle any of this!

There’s always been children who need extra support or an individual approach to allow them to access the curriculum…we completely understand this, and do our utmost to ensure they experience some success. No teacher wants to see a child struggle academically.

However, the shift in behaviour from some students/families is beyond what we can reasonably expect to manage.

This is what the OP is referring to, not children who struggle academically.

I agree with you wholeheartedly when you talk about parental influence. There was absolutely no disruption when I was at school - mid 50’s to late 60’s. My parents instilled in my sister and me, that a good education was paramount, and I would never have wanted to disappoint them. I presume that other pupils’ parents shared the same ethos.

But we also had very firm boundaries, and I think that some parents today are less inclined to enforce rules around respect and responsibility.

I feel very sad for children whose learning is compromised by the unruly behaviour of some. It’s unjust. I also feel for teachers who try their very best to fulfill their roles, and have little or no access to workable solutions for unacceptable behaviour.

@InMyShowgirlEra

I disagree though. The strongest head I worked for made her team of teachers realise that we are accountable for behaviour as teachers, and we need a strong behaviour in place that is clearly understood by the whole team - along with strong planning that she would check every Monday. And the head was extremely visible and would intervene if a situation got out of hand.

We had really tough children, but no exclusions and a team effort with good differentiation and children feeling positive about themselves.

I loved working in that school.

From experience, bugger all, they don't care

So it's the teachers fault there is abusive, aggressive and violent pupils, and combatative, abusive parents?
Would love to know how!

If we adults provide a world for children that they can’t cope with - that’s on us, not them.

"18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time."

I doubt that's the reason because I doubt you get the same disruptive behaviour in post 16 education.

The selection is that parents have to want their DC to go there - the parent want the strict ethos.

A huge factor in making children disruptive in class is the attitude of the parents.

@SallySuperTrooper

Well seeing as you’ve just written off a whole group of society there as ‘disruptive’ yes that is where the problem lies. Shall we just write them off? What would you like to do with them all? Wash our hands of them? Ship them off on a plane somewhere?

Educate them separately from non-disruptive kids obviously. Why should the rest of the class suffer?

Can't cope?!

I suppose you think that Axel Rudubukana "couldn't cope" when he took a knife to a roomful of little girls? Or maybe the kids running around trying to set fire to migrant hotels just need a hug?

The bar for loss of control in law is very high, and rightly so. A teenager making the decision to swear and be violent need to be made responsible for his own behaviour.

You only have to go on the NEET Reddit subreddit and read the threads to see the consequences of not holding children accountable for anything, mollycoddling, giving into their every whim and demand or never teaching them to build resilience, go out of their comfort zone or be criticised. So many young adults with poor socialisation and work ethic on there lamenting (upon self-reflection) on how their current state is most probably due to getting away with wanting to do whatever they wanted as kid, never being held accountable for anything and being able to opt out of anything that wasn't the least bit fun or gave them endless euphoric joy.

There's also a severe shift in the age-appropriate minimum standards of behaviour or responsibility by so many children. When I was at school (bog standard state school), I can't recall a single time anyone ever asked the teacher for a pen because they didn't have one. They usually had good enough habits/muscle memory to bring one each day or they had average enough socialisation skills to ask the person next to them for one. So many kids these days seem to have neither. We even took our exercise books home for each subject each night and then bought them in the next day. Even the most lowest ability, disruptive, neglected or deprived child brought in their pens and books. No child wasted the teachers time on not being able to do the most bare minimum low-stakes responsibility tasks possible. There wasn't this learned-helplessness. Nowadays expecting children to have a pen so time isn't wasted is tantamount to child abuse apparently.

Covid definitely exacerbated the situation but the decline was there beforehand. Covid just probably bought it forward 5 years.

They are not "disruptive." They are CHOOSING to behave in a disruptive way.

Telling them that it's someone else's fault they are disruptive and they can't stop being like that unless they get "support" is disempowering- and schools like Michaela, as much as I dislike them, prove that when accountability is put onto the child they rise to meet it.

And suddenly, they are a child who no longer chooses to act in a disruptive way. Because they know that if they do, there will be no excuse made for them.

This is what I wish too.
I know Germany and the USA have similar systems. Seems bonkers that we don't...

I went to a fairly ‘rough’ state school

In my experience, sixth form was absolutely fine because all the disruptive kids had left.
I also found being in the ‘top sets’ in years 7-11 meant you didn’t really get the full picture of everything going on either.

Of course that doesn’t solve the wider problems for everyone else but wondered whether it’s still the case? Or is there even problems in state sixth forms?

BP has blotted her copybook IMO over Michaela. Where are her objectivity, self-knowledge and curiosity? She could have said: 'Michaela's approach works. Personally, I don't like it but let me visit and see what I can learn.'

This is the bottom line for me. The child removed from school doesn't disappear from the community. Yes, some may find alternative schooling or be home schooled by their parents. But those where the parents really don't care will not start being educated by their parents, they will be out bored in the community with zero support or guidance. And the same people saying 'remove them from school' will be asking 'what aren't these children in school?'. Many of those removed from school live as adults in the community with limited legal means of supporting their families. Out of sight doesn't mean they cease to exist, they just become a much bigger and more serious problem for the community.

Please don't tie all parents with disruptive children together!
My child is what you call a disruptive child, he has ASD and ADHD, and his anxiety is through the roof! Which because he can not communicate effectively he meltdowns!

I sit with him in school with his 1 to 1 until 10am every day as that is all he can manage for the past 18 months sitting in a room trying to get him to push through his anxiety and help him do work!

I with the school, have fought for an EHCP! And literally begged for help from LA!
They can not meet need and he desperately needs another school but the LA knows better!

My child does not play with others, hasn't been in a classroom for over a year!
I have had to give up work,social life (my child so of course I had to).
Mostly because he can not manage mainstream and partly because it is not fair to cause disruption.

So please stop also saying that it does not effect the disruptive child because it can and does!

She doesn't possess the skills of "objectivity, self-knowledge and curiosity". She also has no interest in education, she really only cares about soggy toast and blazers! She has no interest in actual education

when nearly every kid in the class has ADHD what do you expect of course schools are disruptive these days

Asking well behaved kids to share a classroom with disruptive kids is just like women being asked to share loos with transwomen. No They shouldn’t have to budge up and accommodate just because having to sort out an alternative is a ball ache for service providers. Not the well behaved kids problem to solve.

That makes a lot of sense. Though I thought it was catchment like everywhere else. So is there really much choice? Are they many schools in the area to choose from? Maybe there are !

She does bang on about a 'broad and balanced education' and 'every child having a high quality education'. I find her self-righteous and rigid. It looks as though her star is on the rise, however.