To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

And where exactly is this mythical place that will take all our feral kids? Narnia?

Are you actually serious about parentkind being unbiased? They pay mummy bloggers £100's to answer their surveys in the way they want and they then offer extra money to those who can get their readers to answer the same way! I was once offered £300 by them to answer a survey about girl guides and how safe I felt it was for my kids (who at the time were toddlers) when I told them my kids don't go to girl guides I was told "that's okay we can provide you with the answers"! That's when I stopped believing anything that mentioned them!

My son is Yr10, with ASC. He's now in EOTAS with private tuition, but at school he was put into a small group with other SEN kids but also disruptive kids. Putting the two together seems strange - the SEN kids were disrupted by the others, and my son got drawn into a badly-behaved group of kids who encouraged him to carry a knife and vape, drink etc. It's as if they see those two cohorts as the same thing.

@TeamBuffalo

Bang on. It’s a case of ‘let’s exclude all the kids we don’t like and find a ‘special’ place to put them’. No forward thinking of the ongoing issues that might cause. So long as my ‘perfect’ children are alright, the rest of society can get fucked.

The crime rate near the Michaela school has increased tenfold?

I don't believe this for a minute.

So my child was in a class where one child starts throwing chairs at random at least once a week and assaults other children. Two others had screaming rows that took up at least 10 mins of each lesson. What do you think the school should have done? Is it right that my child was in a constant state of fear when on school premises? What do you suggest the school do?

And your child was nearly excluded for being disruptive although you say they weren’t being disruptive? Do you know what sort of parent you sound like in saying that?

Bad kids are already excluded from school. Just not enough of them.

Don't they have isolation units anymore? This is where disruptive kids were sent I'd DS school so the rest of the class could get on with the lesson in peace

@Buddingbudde

Someone should have given the child clear boundaries. Someone should have taken control of the situation. Someone should have been removed from the child until they’d calmed down - and told the consequences of their actions. Then returned after a time to think. This is the responsibility of SLT - but 9/10 SLT don’t want to know, and would rather exclude then use an ounce of empathy to solve the issue.

If you’ve ever watched Chris Lilly, watch the teacher in Gumnut Cottage - the one that Jonah responds to. I agree that series is inappropriate in so many ways, but the observation on teachers and their ethos is v v v accurate.

It's 100% this ^^

I've taught in state secondary schools for 12 years and this is 99% down to very poor parenting.

Lots of pupils play up because they crave adult attention and just left to do what they want evenings and weekends and holidays. No structure.

Parents need to be held accountable for their child's behaviour.

(and yes, my own daughter can be exceptionally defiant despite my best efforts, but yes I 100% support the school and if she has hasn't done her work then she misses out on fun activities and has to do it at home instead).

I think it's about time they bring back state "borstal" style boarding schools for kids who continually disrupt the education of others. The routine, discipline, and exercise would be hugely beneficial for so many of these kids and they'd get a lot out of it. They need to learn both self worth and respect.

Why are there so many useless parents nowadays?

Depends on the detention. Not handing homework in on time when they had no reason not to = justified detention.

Not getting into school on time when the Tube staff are on strike for a week = unjustified detention.

Schools need to pick their battles rather than expecting to have rules about every little thing. I do think some of the problems are caused by ridiculous rules which we might have put up with and our parents did, but now we just think what the hell? Uniform rules being the main ones.

This is exactly the attitude that causes poor behaviour in schools. Parents making excuses for little Johnny because, "it's not their fault!!!"

Detentions should be issued for things that would be unacceptable in the workplace too.
Not doing the work. Unacceptable language. Inappropriate work attire (uniform). Disrupting meetings (lessons). And... persistent lateness.

There was notice for the tube strikes. London doesn't just shut down whenever there's a tubestrike. Leave earlier. Get a bus. Walk. Uber if that's the only option.

Yes she's most definitely one of those parents. Further confirmed by her describing her child as 'absolutely beautiful and vulnerable'. And of course refusing to acknowledge her absolutely beautiful and vulnerable child was ever disruptive. So presumably the school wanted to expel her definitely non disruptive child just for shits and giggles?

I've worked in schools and have come across this type of parent often. My eye rolling reached epic proportions.

So I asked the Y10 teen yesterday if there are any disruptive students in any of his (GCSE) classes this year, and he said "no". He is clearly lucky and hasn't been without the disruption. He is in a state comprehensive (academy) mixed with a very good SENCo department. He is in top sets, which I think helps, but what also helps is a good headteacher. His Head holds parent chats, informal group settings and he made it clear he would be supporting his teachers to not be told to "fuck off" in class. And it works.

Students unable to be the class are removed and put in a separate part of the school, supervised with work if they want to do it, they are not forced because they won't be forced to do anything, behave, or study. They have separate breaks because being around many others can be a trigger.

It works, the students who can remain in class do, they learn and carry on, the teachers get to teach, and the students who find classes difficult don't have to be in a class, their parents can work because they are supervised at school.

If you can't fill TA positions, and let's face it how many can you fill, very low wages, difficult job, how many people are queuing up to do this work, it can't be done by just anyone they need to care about what they are doing whilst being paid peanuts, so if you just can't employ the staff to fulfill the support the child is legally required to have just to be in a class what exactly can you do?

This academy is very good mind, they isolate, suspend and expel. Because when you have pupils telling female teachers they should be in a kitchen looking after a man, what do you do? The student has no intention of being taught by a female, you can't just find a male teacher off Amazon. So they get put upstairs, in a classroom, with worksheets, see how it goes. Are they going to pass any GCSEs? probably not, but they are also not going to prevent others doing so.

There are no easy or even possible answers to this. Our youngster has x2 years in mainstream then will move to conditional offer 6th form (which is so much better) they have to have at least grade 6s across the board to just get in, grades 7 and above for their Alevel subjects. So much better.

What can and can't be done is all well and good but students have a limited time at school, like ours he has x2 years, not even full years left, that's it, that's his shot at secondary, he is capable of 10 grade 7-9 GCSEs, along with many others, luckily his school is aware and tries to offer an education to the ability and focus of each pupil.

Society needs pupils achieving as much as it needs pupils just getting through. It's not being uncaring it's just being realistic.

Dd went to our local primary. We live in a really shitty area. Her lessons were constantly disrupted. There was some awful behaviour in all years, but especially as she got to year 5 & 6. The staff were fantastic, but we live in an area where some parents pick fights with teachers at pick up, so it doesn’t bode well for their children.

She passed the 11+ and started at a girls grammar school last week.

She’s was amazed that the teachers never stop a lesson. They talk and the students sit and listen. she said no one shouts, no one throws things, no one winds up the teachers. Every girl there wants to be there, studied really hard to get in, and wants to learn.

She’s now in her element.

I went to a girls grammar and it was the same. My dh tells me stories of his secondary school, which admittedly was in a rough area, and it sounds horrific. We never had any trouble either.

Our two didn’t have significant behavioural issues at school either. But then they went to a single sex state school in a good area then conditional offer min 6x6 6th form. This was no accident - when we left London we moved here largely for that reason. So it’s not a universal thing,

You are spot on- reducing class sizes to 20 or even 25 would make a huge difference to teacher and student wellbeing.

DD1 has been a very quiet, studious child in a classroom dominated by a group of absolute reprobates for six years now. It's upsetting for a kid who truly enjoys school and wants to get on with their work when the majority of the class are screaming, shouting and generally pissing about. She is constantly overlooked for class awards because they're too busy dishing them out to the kids who managed not to punch someone that week. The teachers are constantly playing catch-up, trying to deal with horrendous behaviour whilst simultaneously trying to help the kids who actually want to learn. I'm praying she will pass the 11+ next week, get into the local Grammar and finally escape the little fuckers, who will all be going to the rough comp down the road.

I agree with every word you have written here, but the cost of delivering it is well beyond the ability of most councils to pay, as they also have to fund senior and adult social care for thousands of people. The numbers are huge.

Fingers Crossed for her x

Yes. It wouldn’t resolve the issues but they’d be a lot more manageable. Unfortunately it’s just not feasible.

Must be a relief for you all!

Quite.