To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

Not sure what you’re replying to but…no one is talking about dehumanising children. Well not I know of. Ridiculous stretch.

Thats sad 😥 poor kid.

Agree. And usually these are the parents that have multiple children and dont properly look after them/nurture them. The neglect = anger and attention seeking.

These kids you have described are not SEN they just shit parents.

@Absentosaur

There are marches going on in London today? You could join and hold a banner saying ‘deport all disruptive kids’? Might make you feel better.

SEN yes. Shitty parents possibly.

Sorry what is the problem you have (apart from lack of comprehension and a chip on your shoulder that is)? Well I hope you get better soon xx

@Absentosaur

Every child has a right to an education. It is a basic human right. To take away that right IS dehumanising. I’d say lumping kids you don’t ’take to’ and carting them off to an institution which is out of their community and is likely to give them worse opportunities and outcomes is dehumanising. The way you talk about children - CHILDREN - is shocking.

Serious What ARE you talking about? Where did I talk about sending kids to ‘institutions’? Do you mean schools?

@Absentosaur

The assumptions you made about that child in the garden are awful.

@Absentosaur

You basically agreed with a poster who was describing a vulnerable child as problematic because that child stops another poster from ‘enjoying their sun in the garden’. You made assumptions about their behaviour in school and made an assumption that they should be in a ‘special school’.
So how would you like that ‘special school’ to function exactly?

Exactly! It is all down to lack of funding for state schools.

Most of the time it's not "SEN".
That's an insult to many children who do have Special Education Needs (ie disabilities) who are being badly let down by lack of schools suitable for their needs.

Parents rule. Schools are terrified of prosecution. I am afraid this is all about bad parenting.

As a teacher, it is a problem but it’s not the government’s or teachers’ , it’s the parents not parenting properly. We hate disruptive behaviour and it’s a never ending source of stress for teachers but it’s constantly worse when parents don’t support us or at that school behaviour doesn’t need to be followed up at home because it’s not a home problem. Parents need to follow up on poor behaviour and back us up because otherwise that is how the system collapses.

I know these boys. Do you?

No but I know plenty of "SEN" children.

My son just into year 8 is autistic and dyslexic, sits quietly in a classroom and is telling me that 75% of some of his lessons are being disrupted due to poor behaviour of a large amount of the class (chatting, throwing things, kids in and out for any excuse) He can’t get into the top sets but wants to learn and is getting really miserable with not being able to.

How to solve it - yes it’s parent engagement for the majority of these children when the school is trying to deal with it. But on a government policy level then I believe the funding formula needs to change. As birthrates decline, you should be upping the funding amount per pupil so that you can have smaller classes - schools can’t drop numbers or they lose money and that means fewer staff! Having the ability to reduce the timetable for children and offer small groups in that space for different needs (be it practical options, literacy support, study skills, pre-teaching, extension work) The government policy is not looking at this and is pushing money into headline grabbing schemes like ‘free breakfast clubs’ and ‘school nurseries’ that actually will not solve any issues.

Increase funding for schools and give them the freedoms to try new ways of doing things as opposed to restricting them. Instead of just waving money for gimics that aren’t actually needed.

This is one of the problems I'm facing often. It never used to be this way. Before, after the input, I'd be able to set them all off with differentiated work and myself and the TA would focus on supporting a table each (this changed each day so all ch got the support/ challenge required).
My TA is now away doing 1:1 so I'm left teaching the whole class. Which would be fine, if the class didn't have so many other SEN and disruptive children. I need to split myself in so many ways to cater to the SEN, the low level and the disruptive that the rest of the class don't get a look in. It's so unfair for all.

For me it's not a straight choice between current 'typical' secondary schools and Michaela. There are other places doing a fantastic job with a broad range of kids/families, but without the prison rules. Some examples:
Banff Academy went from the worst school in Scotland: Inspection - Students’ ‘one chance’ threatened by failing school | Tes Magazine to an incredibly successful school, but through a focus on health and wellbeing, skill building (not just focusing on knowledge), real world learning and project based learning.
The XP school in Doncaster (deprived ex-mining communities in South Yorkshire) is incredible, focussing on character and hard work and using 'expeditionary learning' (cross curricular projects in the real world), but without draconian rules or even a school uniform: Values & Ethos – XP School
And the Steiner Academy Hereford came top of this year's Fairer Schools' Index: Fairer Schools Index: The 20 Best Schools in England Revealed For 2025 Again - no uniform, lots of craft, art, music and movement in the curriculum.

Education is not just about the transfer of information from adults to children. It's about the development of the whole person - learning to be an active, responsible participant in society. School can't do ALL of that, but it does have to play a bigger part than just getting kids to pass GCSEs (which is a ridiculous system anyway, when 1/3 have to fail each year).

@DampSock

Oh! I see now. I see you now.

You declared that I apparently want to send kids to ‘borstals’, you declared that I apparently want kids to ‘fester’. You in fact declared that I was ‘dehumanising’ kids.

So it all makes sense now. What I (and many others) have suggested is that one size does Not fit all, the inclusion mantra Everyone of all needs in one classroom does not work. It results in many being excluded, in fact.

You are in fact making shit up to suit your own cognitive bias, and judgmental nature. Nothing will stop you being so sure of your own misguided righteousness. Sad really but the truth hurts, I know. I won’t reply to you any further, trust you’re ok with that. But if not, so sorry and good luck.

@JaneyDC this was what it was like when ds(22) was at school. He had a one to one and there was a TA for the rest of the class. He went private for secondary school and there were no TAs in the class though class sizes were much smaller. Ds didn't need one to one by then.

@Absentosaur

No. It’s not about that. I have an absolutely beautiful, vulnerable child who was nearly ‘excluded’ from local schooling. DC is not disruptive, DC is easily overlooked - DC deserves a right to an education within his local community and the opportunity to make friends/build a life where DC lives.

Yet he was viewed as ‘disruptive’ and a drain on resources = exclusion.

Children are children. They are brought into to this world with adult expectations and labels.

If we - as adults - fail their needs, it is not their fault.

Why is it a government problem? Why isn't it a parent's problem?
Personally I think I'd your kids so disruptive that they're getting put in isolation, suspended or expelled then the parents should be fined. Good behaviour starts at home!
Having said that my kids go to state school
100% of last year's year 11 achieved grades 4 and above in their GCSEs and 95% achieved 3's and above. Not only that in the 6th form 100% of students got the grades they needed for University.
My kids have never complained about their lessons being disrupted, but I know there is zero tolerance for bad behaviour.
My nephew on the other hand is at a private school and is always complaining about his lessons being disrupted by bad behaviour, and is constantly being kept back for whole class detentions!

No it doesn't! Do you realise that the crime rate near the Micheala school has increased 10 fold!
The kids are that restricted at school that after school they have to release their energy somewhere so antisocial behaviour is on the increase! Kids are still kids at the end of the day.
Also you have to agree to certain behaviours that your child will or won't do during school hours on the school premises but nothing out of school so they can't get kicked out for it!