To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

@Thepeopleversuswork

The reason I don’t agree with that reformUK policy - is it will lead to a situation where the most affluent children thrive, and the underprivileged are excluded.

My SEN child was rejected from state initially. Where would he have gone? After a battle, he is in state - happy and thriving.

Under that reform policy, it is too easy to exclude children - and encourages labels of difficult, unteachable - and then children start believe that about themselves. And a child in that negative cycle - what do they then go on to do? Commit crime? And how does that impact society?

@Thepeopleversuswork

And what concerns me is that we are normalising that reformUK thought process about children’s education. That is the real danger. It was certainly not the thought process 20 years ago - when exclusion rates were lower, teachers had to provide good differentiated planning, and schools were more accountable for behaviour.

I'm more worried about Labour's thought process on education ie inclusion above everything, reducing access to EHCPs and limiting parents right to appeal. 1 size fits all does not work.

Totally agree

@twistyizzy

I wholeheartedly agree with inclusion. It’s on the new OFSTED reporting card system. My child was nearly excluded before DC had even set foot in school, and to see DC now - it would have been completely detrimental to his well being, DC is learning really well.
I know of another exclusion and the family are desperate and don’t have a school place. The child is settled in every environment I’ve seen him in - except school.

Something definitely does need to change in terms of EHCP’s - it is far too complex, open to misinterpretation and under resourced.

I wholeheartedly agree that one size fits all does NOT work and schools should be adapting to reflect the changing needs in our society.

@DampSock

The reason I don’t agree with that reformUK policy - is it will lead to a situation where the most affluent children thrive, and the underprivileged are excluded.

To reiterate: I am not a fan of Reform.

But the reality at the moment is that the most affluent children thrive, while the less affluent fall into one of two categories: they either struggle due to learning difficulties and chaotic lives and are completely unsupported in “inclusion” or their education is constantly disturbed and interrupted by the need to manage the first category of children.

Its these children above all who are being failed by the blanket policies of inclusion applied in state schools.

I think your claim that the underprivileged are excluded isn’t quite right. There is very little exclusion by all accounts and children have to show a consistent and long running pattern of behaviour to be excluded.

Meanwhile a whole generation of children, of varying levels of affluence and privilege but who stop short of very extreme behaviour, is being denied a quality education by the dogged insistence on keeping children who should be excluded in the system.

In my experience those that are unaffected by the VAT increases are the least vocal about it but I am happy to be proven wrong.

Your data selection seems somewhat biased and that is how I arrived at my opinion.

As previously mentioned, if you live in a deprived area, the best thing for you community is for DC to stay in school rather than limiting options for people that haven't had the best start in life. Or move.

I wholeheartedly disagree with inclusion because it is never funded properly to enable it to work. It may be on new Ofsted but Labour aren't increasing funding to ensure it is done well.

In order to achieve proper inclusion in mainstream schools you would need to at least double funding per pupil, that isn't going to happen. So what will happen is that a broom cupboard will be opened as a "hub", staffed for 1-2 hours per week by a TA and that will be that.

Yes. Keep disruptive children out of school, so that those who want to learn can do so. That IS exactly what I am suggesting.

If only there was a hub! I reckon most of the disruptive kids will stay in class kicking off and smashing stuff up just like they do now.

This is why we were so determined our DDs went to a grammar school. There was virtually zero classroom disruption and what little there was was immediately stamped out. So it was already academically inclined girls also studying in a peaceful, pro active environment. Needless to say, exam results were superb.

Previously I'd worked in city comprehensives and my day comprised mainly of crowd control.

@twistyizzy

Ok, we’ll have to agree to disagree because I strongly believe that inclusion is a core principle of any society.

“Inclusion, as best defined, means that the members of an environment feel that they are valued, respected, and included regardless of their background or identity. They have the same opportunities as others, and they are not overlooked or excluded.”

As my DC was nearly excluded, I feel extremely strongly about this and it will provoke a very strong reaction from me if we are moving towards a society that encourages exclusion.

And you completely missed my reasoning for my stance ie funding.
Inclusion as a concept is great, inclusion in reality is a mess because it isn't correctly funded to be able to do it properly. In that scenario everyone suffers and no child gets rhe education they deserve.

I would suggest that the well behaved kids are not being respected and valued if we make them share a class with the very disruptive kids. Why should their work get destroyed? Why should they have to walk on eggshells for fear of triggering some kind of attack?

Agreed. Why should a majority of children have the few disruptive children ruining Their education day in day out , making the teachers job almost impossible. Idiotic to think including disruptive children regardless, is a good idea. Idiotic or selfish, maybe both.

Quite

Haven't rtft but I watched Educating Yorkshire the other day, a 12yo boy had a massive tantrum, kicking things, shouting and screaming at staff, banging doors etc all because he was asked to spit his chewing gum out. He then turned on the tears and had members of staff pandering to him. No thought given to the rest of the class who had their learning disrupted and had to deal with him kicking chairs around and shouting/screaming.

I haven’t watched but I often wonder why people consent to various shows.

But yes this is awful for other students too.

Grammars do sound good, any selection tends to change things. We were lucky with a comp but house prices were high although still mixed as in London.

Schools need to prioritise the kids that actually want to learn. The messers should not even be a consideration, kick them out and let them wander the streets all day, fasttrack them to prison. It won't take long for the message to get through.

Yes, we have that system in place in my country. Marks/grades from all the subjects since you are 8 or 9 years old. You get bad marks for not completing your homework, bad behaviour, poor performance in tests, etc. You can be held back a year, if you do poorly, so most of students/parents try their best for the kids to behave. BUT parents do have authority at home and are respected. The general message to the kids at school/home is that they have duties first and only then rights. Most of kids/teenagers work really hard, cause there is no generous benefit system, so you can't simply sit at your parental home playing games, claiming some benefit or MH issues and do nothing else. The UK system is so very different that I don't think people here would happily accept this. So many times I read here that the elders don't deserve respect just because they are elders. So here you go, these are the consequences.

This is a great idea, actually.

Or maybe let them get a job or do volunteer work.
For example charity shops are desperate for volunteers. Many can't take donations because they don't have anyone to sort them.
Some teens would actually prefer to be doing something like that instead of being in school.

blame the government for woefully underfunding and decimating SEN education and expecting mainstream schools to be able to cope.

blame the parents of the feral (non-SEN) kids for not giving them boundaries and discipline.

none of it is the fault of the schools or teachers.

Pretty much nailed it!