To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

[Absentosaur]

‘Children at state schools are almost three times more likely to have their lessons disrupted by poor behaviour than their privately educated peers, a widespread survey of parents has found.’

https://archive.md/HMGtJ accessible link to article .

18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time.

Do we expect the government to do something about it, particularly given they have closed the private school doors to many? What could they be doing to improve the worst state schools??

It’s why I send my child to private school. They get rid of the disruptive kids really efficiently. The teachers are just as good as the teachers at her state secondary, it’s just 25% of the lesson isn’t spent sorting out kids pissing around causing havoc. My kids grades have gone up 20% since they started. Its astonishing.

The state is against private school but why not take lessons from them. They could copy private schools success just by creating new schools for those who aren’t willing to learn, leaving those keen to learn to get on with it in peace.

That's a good idea, anyone who is underachieving just throw them out! That's a great way to solve the problem long term!

It’s difficult isn’t it, the government basically said children with additional needs should be on mainstream education where possible but then don’t adequately fund it and in fact increased class size to keep up with the population growth and cut funding of support staff and external services so now there’s huge wait list.
in terms of behaviour without Sen I think it’s fair to say children have less fear of adults nowadays and without the fear it’s harder (although not impossible) to command respect and compliance.
I also wonder if societal changes play a role, children often have less role models, less support for families outside the home, often both parents juggling working and raising a family making parenting much more stressful.
And the fact that state school has become a rigid one size fits all institution, attendance is compulsory and punishable if not complied with. Learning has become more and more pressured. school is often a place stress for some children.

Why is it entirely a government matter? Surely the foundations of good behaviour begin at home from the beginning. Children need boundaries and consistency. Before the inevitable special needs brigade chime in, from my experience of a fairly badly affected autistic son and working with people with special needs, they need even clearer rules and boundaries. Gentle Parenting has a lot to answer for but it is not only the Gentle group that need waking up. There appears to be an endemic culture of entitlement and selfishness among many people. The post on small children giving up their seats and sitting on their parents' laps to make a space for adults is a real eye opener. Even if there were more affordable private school places available, some of the feral pupils in state schools would probably transfer there in any case.

Not underachieving, messing around. How much messing around would simply vanish if the culprit knew he could be kicked out for it? At least 75% I’d say. Don’t those willing to learn deserve a high quality state education?

A better idea would maybe be some schools with a more hands on learning style rather than exam /essay based. More nurture places for semh and better sen provision. But it won’t happen.

Absolutely, my daughter has just started school, but I'd like to think she'd be guided not booted out should she start 'messing around'.

If feral kids transferred to my child private school and started kicking off, throwing things around the classroom the parents would complain and threaten to leave and something would be done. It frustrates me how much disruption state school kids are expected to put up with just because of ‘inclusion’. Doesn’t their education matter too? No. Heads and LEAs just shrug their shoulders when parents complain. Private school parents have a voice within the school, state school parents get told just to suck it up.

My son has Sen needs so slightly different but if someone told him he didn’t have to attend school he would be ecstatic!! Amd what would happen to the kids with no qualifications and limited reading/ writing skills? How will they fund themselves as adults.
The key is early support and intervention otherwise your just solving one problem by creating another.

It's frustrating. When they start having sets in year 8 or 9 I was keen for my son to strive for a higher set with this in mind. I am not saying the top sets don't have disruptive kids but I think it's less common. I feel sorry for the food kids in the lower sets who will be disproportionately surrounded by disruption.

But how much patience and guidance are her classmates expected to put up with while their education is put on the back burner?

I actually wish we had a system where you had to "pass" the year to move up like in Spain and Poland. I've heard students are a lot more motivated to work and they don't have punitive detention systems because the ultimate incentive is if you don't study, you could be held back a year. Also means those needing more time to get to grips with some concepts have it.

My son has come home in tears everyday since the start of high school! The children are uncontrollable and sadly not all of us have the money for a private education

Because BP hates independent schools. Yes of course she could be engaging with them but she proudly boats that she's never stepped foot in one (apart from to use their hockey pitches obviously 🙄). That arrogance means she doesn't understand what they do so well.

Instead of demonising independent schools she could be improving state schools but that's too difficult!

They’d go to a different school. Classes of 30 kids only work if the teacher can talk and the kids listen. If one child takes up 50% of a teachers time, that’s 29 children getting a compromised education.

Not underachieving, displaying highly disruptive behaviour!

It’s utterly disgraceful. But hey, inclusion group hug

It's hardly a new problem. I remember children disrupting clases regularly when I was at school 20 years ago. It's not even "the worst state schools", it's pretty common even in typical schools all over.

That I agree with different schools to meet different needs but currently there isn’t enough funding for this. There are prus (pupil referall units) for behaviour issues and APs (alternative provision) for semh needs but these often end up being a over flow for Sen kids and are often only offered temporarily as a stop gap rather than a solution.

The kids who disrupt in my childs primary school get shoved in one classroom together called “nuture.”
I do think something ought to be done similar in senior school for disruptive kids so those who want to learn can do so.

It’s not a new thing. My school was awful. But I think it’s even worse today.

The Michaela Community School seems to work. I’d be happy if we had a school like that near us, then I wouldn’t need to pay for private school.

Would most people like a school like that school? I’ve heard some people say it’s too strict but perhaps that’s what’s needed?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaela_Community_School

*I’ve not been to it I’ve only read about it

I also of course agree with PP about the influence of parents / family however that’s not so easy to control.

Oh I know this one. The state values inclusion of all over education for most. Schools keep naughty kids off the streets. That’s their job.

Teachers are pressured to deliver results, while SLT in schools don’t support with behaviour management and government doesn’t fund specific interventions for the unmanageable. Kids learn that good behaviour is entirely optional so then there is a borderline group who follow dominant children and suddenly lessons are all fire fighting.

It is possible to do inclusion so it doesn’t impact all children but it is v expensive because you have to prioritise managing behaviour and align all your teaching to back that up - Michaela appears to do it successfully but in about 0.4 seconds someone will be on here to say Michaela fixes its intake or its results. The evidence indicates it does neither but goodness how the government detests it.

Hardly surprising though? Private schools can pick who they accept and don’t have to tolerate poor behaviour. State schools are compulsory for every child. They can’t be as fussy as private because simply the kids have to go somewhere. If they weren’t in state school then where would they be?

It’s depressing and is one of the reasons I no longer teach in a secondary classroom (that and the workload tbh).

It’s not a new problem. It could be solved with more money, of course – more options for schools to (for example) take a number of students into a separate group to offer them different support, as so often IME poor behaviour is actually caused by extra and unmet needs (have seen this again and again) – needs that one teacher of 30 students is unable to meet.

Agree tho that parental influence is huge and education is not valued by some, sadly. Genuine responses to phone call home to very dismissive parent of student who persistently disrupted my lesson:
Well it’s not just her (it’s her I am talking to you about)
Well she's only talking (yes and it's very disruptive when I am trying to deliver content)
But [my subject] is not a priority for us anyway
<gives up>

BP hates Michaela because Michaela doesnt accept excuses for poor behaviour or poor performance. They don't select other than parents who buy into the ethos. They have an intake from a largely deprived area and turn out amazing GCSE results.
They demand accountability from pupils over their own learning. That's what BP hates, plus she's only bothered about breakfast clubs and blazers. She isn't interested in actual education.