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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher here... did I fuck up?

164 replies

ForSillyGreySwan · 10/09/2025 16:55

I went through my classroom rules.

  1. don't argue with my instructions
  2. treat me with the same respect as a male teacher (had sexist comments last year)
  3. phones handed in at start
  4. don't talk while i'm explaining
(I am a young female teacher who doesn't want to encounter any behavioural issues so i'm being firm from the start.)

I said 'if you have an issue with any of these rules, feel free to discuss them with the principal'.

In short, one of them actually did and now I'm being called into a meeting about it with the very principal I referred them to. Meeting is at 10am tomorrow. Really anxious about it.

OP posts:
TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 18:13

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 17:35

Why on earth did you start like this? That's absolutely not the strategy that you learned during training.
You don't have rules. The school has a behaviour code which you uphold. This is supported by the pastoral system and the SLT.
I'm guessing you're not in the UK and not in a state school?

I've taught in (mostly state) schools for 30 years. Of course you have rules. It is good practice to set out your rules and expectations at the beginning of the school year. The fact that there are school policies does not negate the need for teachers to set out what is expected in their subject in their classroom. Your class rules may be a bit different depending on whether you are an MFL teacher, a PE teacher, a drama teacher etc. They don't go against the school rules. They interpret them or expand on them.

Nothing wrong with being clear and firm, OP. I wouldn't have said the bit about thr principal. And tbh I wouldn't have said the bit about male teachers either. I understand why you did - I've worked in schools where lots of boys had zero respect for female teachers' authority. I stil think it's better to say respect everyone and then deal with issues as they arise. Otherwise you are potentially actually planting the idea that they might treat women worse, or that you expect them to.

DoYouReally · 10/09/2025 18:14

Your inexperience, negativity, hostility and defensiveness is showing.

I'm normally ever supportive of teachers. It's a tough job but you've gone about this completely wrong.

Why have rules seperate to school rules?

Why assume negative problems before they arise?

Why assume different treatment to male colleague based on one previous incident?

A much better was of doing things would have been.

I'll really looking forward to working with you this year and am hoping we will all get along well. There's a few things I would like us to work on together - everyone is this classroom should be treated fairly and respectivefully and for the benefit of everyone's learning, can I ask that when I am explaining something that everyone listens and then I can address the questions afterwards.

Instead, you took the approach of I am the boss, what I say goes and if you don't like it you can go to the head....you cannot be shocked that I child considered that "challenge accepted" and went to the head.

Leadership & respect is earning and gained by bringing people with you - even in a classroom.

UnintentionalArcher · 10/09/2025 18:16

yhtrfh · 10/09/2025 17:50

if i asked you your name does that also mean im accusing you of never having told anyone your name? not very bright comment

That’s not a good analogy.

If you are the OP (I’m a bit confused), then these things take time and experience to learn, but many experienced teachers will tell you that in any typical group of students there will be some who respond negatively to anything that they perceive to be unfair. For example, if they perceive that you’re prejudging them, without evidence, of being sexist (unless these are some of the same students you’ve taught before), some will openly and possibly defiantly react to that. It’s human nature and particularly likely to be provocative to teenagers (if that is the age group).

Setting expectations clearly and positively is very different to negatively pre-empting boundaries that haven’t yet been crossed.

Good luck - it does get easier for the most part and it’s great that you’re intent on not accepting poor behaviours. That will take you a long way.

BigFatBully · 10/09/2025 18:21

ForSillyGreySwan · 10/09/2025 16:55

I went through my classroom rules.

  1. don't argue with my instructions
  2. treat me with the same respect as a male teacher (had sexist comments last year)
  3. phones handed in at start
  4. don't talk while i'm explaining
(I am a young female teacher who doesn't want to encounter any behavioural issues so i'm being firm from the start.)

I said 'if you have an issue with any of these rules, feel free to discuss them with the principal'.

In short, one of them actually did and now I'm being called into a meeting about it with the very principal I referred them to. Meeting is at 10am tomorrow. Really anxious about it.

Number one should depend on the context. If a teacher was behaving inappropriately, of an abusive nature, then I would hope the pupils would say "no, this isn't right".

It sounds as though you introduced yourself as someone with a chip on their shoulder and that's not how to get respect and engagement from a workforce. The adults that I manage wouldn't have respect for me if I gave an induction speech such as that.

The problem with the younger generation is that many aren't brought up to give respect out in the first place, then complain when they don't get it back. Many young shop workers don't say please or thank you and then complain about how "rude" their customers are.

You are treating your pupils as adults without affording them the respect that an adult would be given in the first place. I fully support strong discipline and I only wish more parents were keen to instil boundaries and acceptable standards of behaviour in their children, but that should be done in a careful way.

For example "don't argue with my instructions" is too broad of a term given the safeguarding risks saying such a thing poses. It's also a hostile manner in which to greet someone and doesn't promote respect for you or a good morale. "Please follow instructions from me relating to your work, without arguments to ensure that lessons run efficiently" would be a better way of wording it. "Treat me with the same respect as the male teachers", well you haven't shown the pupils respect, coming in to the class room with an attitude issue and being 'standoffish' from the very beginning. As the adult, you should know to put behind problems with pupils last year and move forward with resilience, you are supposed to be the professional but seem to be demonstrating adolescent behaviour. "Please be respectful to staff and fellow class mates. Disrespect will not be tolerated, thank you for co-operating" would have been a better approach. "Phones handed in at the start", that's not leading by example in how to be respectful. That's also not demonstrating a way of communicating in the workplace for when they go in to adult life. "Please hand your mobile phones in at the beginning of the lesson and they will be returned to you at the end, this is non-negotiable, thanks for co-operating" would be a better way of wording it, being firm but still showing respect. "Please don't talk whilst I am speaking, I do ask for full respect in my lessons" would be a better way of addressing your final point.

You seem to have come to the lesson with a very negative attitude. As a school teacher, your role is to encourage the children to learn and that needs a positive, can do attitude. You've given the pupils a telling off without them having done anything effectively. In my line of work, we'd only adopt that tone in a disciplinary procedure and even then we'd be more respectful about it.

Have you really undertaken a PGCE? Did they not teach you about leadership, motivation and how to be professional? I cannot imagine a fully qualified teacher bringing hard feelings from the previous term to class and taking those feelings out on a new set of pupils, after 6 weeks ago. Children can be vile, they try to push boundaries, they say mean things. You deal with that by being firm, establishing a consequence for bad behaviour and then instilling the consequence (e.g. detention, housepoint deduction, report home) consistently. You need a zero tolerance approach on disruptive and disrespectful behaviour but you also need to be demonstrating giving out respect to lead by example.

As for your comment regarding "if you have an issue, feel free to discuss with the principle", well that's one of the most childish things I've ever heard. It also sets an argumentative tone. I've never known a teacher or member of SEN staff conduct themselves in this manner.

NomoneyNoprospects · 10/09/2025 18:26

I'd have tried to start off with a bit more of a firm but positive/upbeat vibe in the room tbh.

Principal is probably annoyed you've given them all permission to go straight to her/him before any Heads of Year or Heads of Dept etc.

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:35

NomoneyNoprospects · 10/09/2025 18:26

I'd have tried to start off with a bit more of a firm but positive/upbeat vibe in the room tbh.

Principal is probably annoyed you've given them all permission to go straight to her/him before any Heads of Year or Heads of Dept etc.

Quite!

Neemie · 10/09/2025 18:39

yhtrfh · 10/09/2025 17:50

if i asked you your name does that also mean im accusing you of never having told anyone your name? not very bright comment

I’m starting to see where your students might be coming from.

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:39

TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 18:13

I've taught in (mostly state) schools for 30 years. Of course you have rules. It is good practice to set out your rules and expectations at the beginning of the school year. The fact that there are school policies does not negate the need for teachers to set out what is expected in their subject in their classroom. Your class rules may be a bit different depending on whether you are an MFL teacher, a PE teacher, a drama teacher etc. They don't go against the school rules. They interpret them or expand on them.

Nothing wrong with being clear and firm, OP. I wouldn't have said the bit about thr principal. And tbh I wouldn't have said the bit about male teachers either. I understand why you did - I've worked in schools where lots of boys had zero respect for female teachers' authority. I stil think it's better to say respect everyone and then deal with issues as they arise. Otherwise you are potentially actually planting the idea that they might treat women worse, or that you expect them to.

No. You uphold the school rules, you don't create your own!. That's a recipe for chaos. Every teacher with different rules?!
I've not come across that since the 90s.
Consistency and clarity of purpose.
This gets communicated to parents so that they understand the school's code of behaviour.
How on earth would you communicate all the different teachers' rules?

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:43

I am very curious about your training, OP.

yhtrfh · 10/09/2025 18:43

i teach only gcse. 100% pass rate, btw

SomethingInnocuousForNow · 10/09/2025 18:45

😅I love teenagers, just the thought of one of them going to discuss class rules with the Headteacher is quite funny.

I personally wouldn't have started out the year on a negative and also there is absolutely no way you are not going to 'encounter behaviour issues', you work with real human children, not robots!

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:48

SomethingInnocuousForNow · 10/09/2025 18:45

😅I love teenagers, just the thought of one of them going to discuss class rules with the Headteacher is quite funny.

I personally wouldn't have started out the year on a negative and also there is absolutely no way you are not going to 'encounter behaviour issues', you work with real human children, not robots!

I know! If you have had any contact at all with teenagers, you'd just know that and avoid it. It's funny, though! That's why they're so great to work with. Exhausting, however....

TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 18:48

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:39

No. You uphold the school rules, you don't create your own!. That's a recipe for chaos. Every teacher with different rules?!
I've not come across that since the 90s.
Consistency and clarity of purpose.
This gets communicated to parents so that they understand the school's code of behaviour.
How on earth would you communicate all the different teachers' rules?

Confused I uphold the schools rules and I establish my own. I communicate them to my classes. I don't need to communicate them to parents, as there are no parents aren't in my classroom. There is no 'chaos'. Some of my rules are that students call me Mme / Frau TaborlinTheGreat, answer the register in French / German and use the target language for basic interactions. Also that they treat the headphones carefully and wind the wires around them before putting them back in the box. Those rules wouldn't be very applicable to a PE lesson.

Dangermoos · 10/09/2025 18:52

enwarall · 10/09/2025 16:59

Number 2 should just be: Be respectful.

I agree. You're drawing attention to something, which should go without saying. They will see that as a weakness. @ForSillyGreySwan

MrsHamlet · 10/09/2025 18:53

yhtrfh · 10/09/2025 18:43

i teach only gcse. 100% pass rate, btw

Good for you.

But you might want to consider how you address students and colleagues to show mutual respect.

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:54

TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 18:48

Confused I uphold the schools rules and I establish my own. I communicate them to my classes. I don't need to communicate them to parents, as there are no parents aren't in my classroom. There is no 'chaos'. Some of my rules are that students call me Mme / Frau TaborlinTheGreat, answer the register in French / German and use the target language for basic interactions. Also that they treat the headphones carefully and wind the wires around them before putting them back in the box. Those rules wouldn't be very applicable to a PE lesson.

You misunderstand my point.
If all teachers had their own rules, and made them up and differed subject to subject, teacher to teacher, the school would be chaotic. Not your classroom!
I've said this several times, so I'll leave it now.
That is an expectation at observation. Application of the school rules.
Teachers uphold the rules, they don't make their own. They certainly don't invite discussion with the SLT if there is dissatisfaction!
ps the headphones one is subject specific, true, but would fall under the category of respecting school property and following teachers instructions.

Glurgle · 10/09/2025 18:55

WonderfulSmith · 10/09/2025 18:10

Can you explain how you managed to name change on the thread?

Logged out as one user, then logged in as another one, I should think. Or is logged in as different users on different browsers. Then forgot which one they were posting as on this thread.

BigFatBully · 10/09/2025 18:57

Glurgle · 10/09/2025 18:55

Logged out as one user, then logged in as another one, I should think. Or is logged in as different users on different browsers. Then forgot which one they were posting as on this thread.

I was thinking the same thing.😂

TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 19:02

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:54

You misunderstand my point.
If all teachers had their own rules, and made them up and differed subject to subject, teacher to teacher, the school would be chaotic. Not your classroom!
I've said this several times, so I'll leave it now.
That is an expectation at observation. Application of the school rules.
Teachers uphold the rules, they don't make their own. They certainly don't invite discussion with the SLT if there is dissatisfaction!
ps the headphones one is subject specific, true, but would fall under the category of respecting school property and following teachers instructions.

Edited

I don't misunderstand your point, I just disagree with it.

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 19:02

TaborlinTheGreat · 10/09/2025 19:02

I don't misunderstand your point, I just disagree with it.

Right 👍
It read like a complete misrepresentation to me, but whatever.

schoolsoutforever · 10/09/2025 19:09

I think the rules read as somewhat confrontational and confrontation is (in my experience) best avoided in teaching where possible. Positives garner more engagement from (young) people so rather than say 'don't argue' better maybe 'respect lesson instructions' (taking out the negative and diffusing the power issue). You are saying the same thing but couching it in less divisive terms. Hope it goes well with the head. Perhaps she/he just has some good advice or similar.

WonderfulSmith · 10/09/2025 19:21

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 18:43

I am very curious about your training, OP.

I think the training is being a 14 year old boy.

MagdaLenor · 10/09/2025 19:22

WonderfulSmith · 10/09/2025 19:21

I think the training is being a 14 year old boy.

Well, that would make sense....

enwarall · 10/09/2025 19:41

Valeriekat · 10/09/2025 17:55

Are you a teacher? Many young female teachers are faced with targeted sexual harassment and misogyny and sometimes sexual assault. It is a problem many schools pretend doesn’t exist.
One of my young and lovely colleagues (one of the best teachers I have ever come across) was targeted like this and it was very difficult for her to deal with and embarrassing to be targeted in that way by children. She always wore trousers and a shirt so couldn’t be described as dressing in a way that would “ invite” such comments.(not that it should make a difference how she dressed)
I think it does need to be made explicit.

I am a teacher.
I disagree with you, but I’m sorry to hear about your colleague and hope she is okay.

Sad to say I personally doubt that having the explicit rule would have made a difference. Male students don’t harass young female teachers because they think it’s okay and there is no rule against it. They do it because they want to wind the teacher up. And a rule like this is a red flag to a bull.

Hercisback1 · 10/09/2025 19:48

HappyNewTaxYear · 10/09/2025 17:29

You’re not a teacher then?

I absolutely am.

I'd never use that list of rules. What a way to disengage your audience.

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